Transwoman in the changing room at school pool

[PoolFloat]

My mum goes to aqua aerobics classes at a sports club in a private school. Recently, a transwoman has joined the class. My mum was told that they use a different changing room to the one next to the pool but today they came out of the pool and put their swimming hat into a locker before returning to the pool to join the class (there is adult free swim beforehand).

The club has a safeguarding policy which states they will: prioritise the safety and well-being of children and adults at risk

I'm not sure if my mum is considered at risk? She is 88 and nearly all the women in the class are in their 70s and 80s.

The changing room has a communal area with only four cubicles so most women get changed in the communal area. Now they are reluctant to do so.

My mum has asked me to help her draft a letter from the women in the class saying how uncomfortable they are that this person is in their changing room but doesn't know how to word it.

Can anyone help please?

I'm not entirely sure. She was a bit horrified to see 'a man's feet' and then when she went back the next week, her friend said it wouldn't happen again because the person was now using a different changing room. I don't know what triggered that - if the club made a decision, if other women had complained or what.

That happened months' ago and I was going to start a thread then but thought it had been resolved as the club had found a mutually acceptable solution.

It's only this week that the person has returned to the original changing room.

I only get snapshots from my mum - she's a carer for my dad and doesn't like leaving him so she leaves the class early. I assume the person came back into the changing room to get showered and changed in a cubicle like they had before but I don't know that for a fact.

@LK1972 Agreed. When clarity over boundaries becomes fuzzy, then so do the boundaries, and for vulnerable children, particularly those who have experienced or vulneable to abuse, clarity over boundaries is pretty crucial. I don’t know how we got to a stage where a trans person’s upset is deemed more important than basic safeguarding.

The PP is maybe conflating knife crime with all violent crime, and “non-white” with black. Around 2/3 of knife crime in London is committed by non-white people.

fullfact.org/crime/are-majority-youth-knife-offenders-minority-ethnic/

Yes, all this.

I agree with the other posts, it’s about validation or intimidation, not at all about them not wanting to share facilities with other men.

As this case shows, the had another area available, one for only his use, but he did not want privacy, or dignity, he wanted to use the area that women were using.

One of the things that interests me when we have these debates is when we use the words trans women what are we describing. Is it some one who woke up today and decided to be a women? . Is it a women who after years of therapy and surgeries has transitioned to be a women. ? There's a big difference between the two

Taking the Stonewall definition, it is literally any man who for any reason feels, at that moment, that he feels more comfortable / happy using the female facility.

I'm not sure there is a big difference.
Neither one can "transition to be a woman". It's not possible.

I'll concede that the TW who has had years of therapy, surgery etc is probably more committed, but that doesn't mean they are female.
It doesn't mean they should have access to women's spaces either.

And it's the same old argument - how trans is trans? When are you trans enough?
At what point does the magic happen and you "become" a woman?

Why is it we only hear complaints and problems about Transwomen?

I don't believe I have ever heard about a transman who caused any unrest? Maybe I don't read the appropriate newspapers?

That's what this board has been warning about for years and has been called transphobic for.

Once you let in any male, for example, they could have transitioned 30 years ago and have had full surgery and hormones, you let in any male that decided today was the day they were a woman.

How can you let in one lot and not the others?

I personally don't agree that any male should be let in at all. Third spaces all the way, people who don't mind mixed-sex areas can use them and everyone else can use the one that matches their sex.

Well, we hear about transmen giving a miracle birth though

What does it take, for women's "NO" to be taken seriously?

NO.

No. We don't consent. NO men in spaces for girls and women. It's not difficult. We do not consent to men in spaces and facilities for women and girls.

The PP is maybe conflating knife crime with all violent crime, and “non-white” with black. Around 2/3 of knife crime in London is committed by non-white people.

Thanks for suddenly appearing to clarify that the PP meant something different from what they said. 🤨

What they said was racist.

“Conflating” a bunch of things with other different things in order to accuse black people of being criminals is still racist.

One of the things that interests me when we have these debates is when we use the words trans women what are we describing. Is it some one who woke up today and decided to be a women? . Is it a women who after years of therapy and surgeries has transitioned to be a women. ? There's a big difference between the two

It's a good question. It can mean either of these, but as an umbrella term as used in policy making it means both.

Men deciding to identify as women, whether 50 years ago or 5 minutes ago, are still men.
Can't see what is so complicated about it. Men are still men.

They know they are men. We know they are men. As men, they do not belong in spaces for girls and women. Men muscling in on women's spaces is total misogyny, a total "fuck you" to women. And we know it.

If they had any respect at all, at all, for women and girls, then they would show that respect, and stay away from single-sex spaces for girls and women.

I wouldn't allow a man to invade the sex-based legally protected space of my mother. Go with your mum, challenge the man, and eject him. Unless he's an adult human female?

You know, XX chromosomes 😵😵

It is already established that this is a man, an XY!

Arrangements were made for him to have his own changing space. But no, not good enough. This man rips up women's rights.

Well, normally, yes, but a woman can be XY if the SRY is omitted, or if she has total androgen insensitivity. She can also be XXX, and there are other, rare conditions too.

The actual definition is around which gametes we developed to support. With females it’s the large ones.

A man can be XX if the SRY has been transposed onto an X.

Well that's an education tonight. I thought XXX was a beer! How funny!

Associations representing people with DSDs have asked, repeatedly, not to be drawn into the transgenderist debate. I would prefer to respect that.

When a man is standing in front of you, in the changing room or wherever, it is very bloody obvious that the man in front of you is a man.

@Aurora231

So if all 'she' did was use a locker then why enter the change room at all? Why not use the mens room to store a swim cap?

It's entitled and voyeuristic behaviour. Trans identified men do things like that everyday. Using privilege to enter womens spaces unchecked or challenged for their "gender euphoria". All the have to utter is those 5 magic words "I identify as a woman" bingo!!

It really does not matter if this male dressed in women's clothes, wants to look at elderly ladies changing or not, the fact is the female Changing room is for biological woman to change in privacy. He should not be in there putting his hat in a female locker. The place for him is the male changing room where those who have a penis change.

Yeah what SweetSenorita says is all really