Transwoman in the changing room at school pool

[PoolFloat]

My mum goes to aqua aerobics classes at a sports club in a private school. Recently, a transwoman has joined the class. My mum was told that they use a different changing room to the one next to the pool but today they came out of the pool and put their swimming hat into a locker before returning to the pool to join the class (there is adult free swim beforehand).

The club has a safeguarding policy which states they will: prioritise the safety and well-being of children and adults at risk

I'm not sure if my mum is considered at risk? She is 88 and nearly all the women in the class are in their 70s and 80s.

The changing room has a communal area with only four cubicles so most women get changed in the communal area. Now they are reluctant to do so.

My mum has asked me to help her draft a letter from the women in the class saying how uncomfortable they are that this person is in their changing room but doesn't know how to word it.

Can anyone help please?

1/100

Your bias is showing.

@HooverIsAlwaysBroken

I am well and truly fed up of some women thinking that can just give away my right to privacy and dignity.

I do not want any men to walk in on me in the swimming changing rooms when I'm naked.

If I am in hospital I do not want a strange man in the bed next to me

If I end up in prison one day I do not want to be locked in a cell and forced to go to the toilet and shower in front of a man.

If I ever end up in a psychiatric facility I do not want to be forced to share a room with a man

If I am ever raped I do not want to have to choose between no counselling/support or having to recount my rape in front of a man?

If I need to receive intimate care due to an accident or illness I do not want a man changing my tampon or sanitary towels or washing me.

I do not want to be forced to accept a man in any female spaces or roles. Whether that man wants to be a woman or not.

@Dreamwhisper If you care about women and girls feelings, why would you want to give away their privacy and dignity rights, just because a man wants these? For whatever reason (be it trans identification or otherwise).

Genuine question. Simple question.

settings designed specifically for women in vulnerable positions

Women in vulnerable positions... you mean like elderly women in a space that's always been single sex (not gender) who are in varying states of undress?

Glad you agree there is no reason a male bodied person should be in a single sex female changing room.

@FatAgainItsLettuceTime DId you mean to @ me?

I am completely on your side. And love your username 😁!

Just for clarity:

My mum has been told that this person has been offered another changing room. It's a women's changing room. It's a little bit further away from the pool but it is for women and it's not used at this time of day. They had been using that since the original 'coming out of a cubicle in a towel' incident.

Despite being offered a perfectly good changing room which is WOMEN ONLY, they have now decided to come back to the women only changing room which has other women in it.

No. A man is a man.

If that person with the penis removed wants to change the single sex spaces away from men’s, then they have to come up with a solution that doesn’t impinge on the right to privacy and dignity of women. It again is very simple. What that is? Well that’s for the person to create, although the simplest and most cost effective is to just keeping using the men’s changing rooms as he is still a biological man. That is the least harm and the least disruption of human rights, privacy and dignity for society.

This

@PoolFloat i am getting this sad feeling that I am getting when I learn something horrid about a person.

I remember reading FWR a few years ago and a poster told me that it never was about the “safe spaces”, it was about the women in those spaces. I just feel so disappointed every time this is shown to be right. Still.

They had been using that since the original 'coming out of a cubicle in a towel' incident.

Does that mean the women in your mum's group have already complained and that was the agreed arrangement? The school just need to insist on it then if so.

@PoolFloat really? Your latest update really does prove what many have been warning about all along. This is about more than this particular trans person’s ‘feelings’, it is about something a bit more sinister to be honest, an erosion of other’s very valid and important boundaries.

I remember reading FWR a few years ago and a poster told me that it never was about the “safe spaces”, it was about the women in those spaces. I just feel so disappointed every time this is shown to be right. Still.

@Datun makes this argument very well, that it's normally about access to a space with women in it, not having access to a space other than the men's if there are no women in it.

@HooverIsAlwaysBroken yes sorry, in my frustrated rant Ines I forgot to say that I was agreeing with your final sentence in an earlier post

"why are women’s feelings worth less than biological males?"

You were the one who said they identify as female it's right there in your post which I quoted, now you are backtracking and saying they identify as transwomen.

Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.

@FatAgainItsLettuceTime no worries at all.

I get frustrated about this whole thing as well, especially given the fact that I have underaged daughters and that strangers on the internet seems to think that they can consent on behalf of them 🤮

@HooverIsAlwaysBroken I think that's what's pushed me over the edge too.

I have an 8yr old daughter and I despair over the utter shit she's going to be sold about gender identity and boundaries.

We've been diligent in teaching it her the PANTs rule and making sure she knows what the boundaries are, that she has the right to privacy, that she can and should say no and trust her instincts and now there's all this tripe being peddled that she should ignore the evidence that's in front of her, push down any feelings of discomfort to appease the feelings of the men and not uphold her boundaries around who gets to see her body because it might offend a TW.

Grrrrrrrr

I never thought about these issues when it was only me. Then I had an ageing mother and now daughters.

and some “kind” people want to consent on behalf of my vulnerable loved ones to be “kind” without considering that it may cause distress. I am so over it.

Ok well most violent crime in London is perpetuated by young impoverished black men. Shall we just lock them all up? Oh no, of course not. Because that’s racism.

You’re fucking right it’s racism. You are a racist. MOST violent crime in London is not committed by black men.

Once again a TRA showing xir incredibly racist ass on here. Are you the same person who keeps showing up here to accuse mixed race women of wearing fake tan?

Yes, I think many women on this board are coming from the same position, even though my daughters (thus probably my mother) are older than yours

Of course it's all about the other women, not the actual physical space. As has been proven time and time again.

A space is just an empty room without "other women" there to give validation to their belief.
Hey, they're just one of the girls!
But without other women there to accept them, they're just a sad man in a room.

That's a big part of the reason why I believe third spaces would never work.
It's missing the all important validation.

They don't want their own spaces. They want our spaces.
And if you think that's hyperbole, watch a few select Youtube videos with TW gloating about intimidating women in the female bathrooms.

I have an autistic son and teaching him boundaries is incredibly important I feel, both for his and other’s privacy, wellbeing and safeguarding. How can I teach him this when adults will be trampling over boundaries? It’s not just girls and women all this confusion affects.

Quite, I think it's important to teach children correct risk assessment, based in a stranger's (or not) sex.

Especially when they are neurodiverse.

Because we know, statistically, it IS different.

I taught my kids when they were small - if you're lost ask a policeman or a woman with kids for help.

Never men, strangely

The brain crap just posted is just that crap. How regressive and misogynistic to parrot the lie of a lady brain, a lie that led to women being denied an education in the not too distant past, and much more. How fucking insulting, anyone who spouts this nonsense is no better than the White Supremacists who spout the same thing about the brains of black people.

The safe way forward is that people use the spaces and services for their sex, if that is a problem for some males then they can campaign for additional, separate spaces that better meet their needs.

And I do still think this is what I can't get over. What about transwomen who have spent large proportions of their lives on hormones, or have had gender reassignment surgery?

What about them? They are not women, they are not female if they don't like the spaces provided for their sex campaign for additional alternatives to be provided.

Stop prioritising their wants over women's needs, stop trying to give away spaces and services for women and disregarding the women who need those spaces and services, stop excluding women who need those spaces and services to access society, stop being a misogynist and pandering to men, stop overriding a woman's no, stop forcing consent onto women who do not consent. My no overrides your yes every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

There are so many trans people that I look up to and respect, and some that I just see are vulnerable people themselves. I absolutely refuse to "not give a shiny shit" about them and I refuse to hold the belief that there's "no such thing" as being transgender.

No-one has said there is no such thing as transgender, what is being said is there is no such thing as a person able to change their sex.

Maybe the moon is made of green cheese.

I don't give a flying fuck if someone out there in Twittersphere thinks I am a TERF, so what?

Not at all. Why would anyone need to walk into a room full of half-naked women to put their swimming hat in a locker? You keep it with you to rinse in the shower at the end of your session.