Transwoman in the changing room at school pool

[PoolFloat]

My mum goes to aqua aerobics classes at a sports club in a private school. Recently, a transwoman has joined the class. My mum was told that they use a different changing room to the one next to the pool but today they came out of the pool and put their swimming hat into a locker before returning to the pool to join the class (there is adult free swim beforehand).

The club has a safeguarding policy which states they will: prioritise the safety and well-being of children and adults at risk

I'm not sure if my mum is considered at risk? She is 88 and nearly all the women in the class are in their 70s and 80s.

The changing room has a communal area with only four cubicles so most women get changed in the communal area. Now they are reluctant to do so.

My mum has asked me to help her draft a letter from the women in the class saying how uncomfortable they are that this person is in their changing room but doesn't know how to word it.

Can anyone help please?

@Noonecaresifyounamechange can you muster up some brain cells before writing such foolish comments. If you can’t distinguish sex then bet you must be as daft as a brush

@StillHappy So is being a woman, tbf, whatever gender theory says.

Women are saying it bothers them and they can't go about their business?

I'm confused 😕

Yes, agreed. Sadly I’ve decided to sometimes cède that point in some conversations to try instead to push back against the new claim that sex is a question of identity too.

@Dreamwhisper I think this is more simple than you think. Do you have daughters?

I have a huge compassion for anyone suffering. I would campaign every day for any transwoman being discriminated against in the work place.

however, I believe all people of the female sex should be allowed to not be exposed to penises, especially when in a vulnerable state (changing rooms, hospitals, prisons). That is why we need a third space for any vulnerable transwomen.

this is because of two reasons:

1. some girls / women have suffered sexual assault from someone with a penis. They deserve to feel safe.

2. there is no way to distinguish transwomen from men who pretend to be transwomen.

I want vulnerable women to be safe and I want my daughter to be safe. That is it.

I am really surprised how people play the statistics here. Take a male in a single sex space. So many people want to bet that a) this is a “proper transwoman”, posing no threat IN COMBiNATION with b) there will be no girls/women in this space who have suffered from sexual assault. That is a huge assumption. What if your daughter was in that space? What if your daughter was traumatised from a sexual assault?

Let’s be honest here; there was no need for him to walk in to put his hat away. No need at all. Whether he was going to the showers or coming back, it’d be normal to keep the hat with him.

A penny to a pound he was only doing that to be in the space while your mother was in there with the others.

Ok so what if the penis has been removed.
Is this person allowed to change in there? 🤷🏻‍♀️

I’m assuming this is sarcasm 😂

@HooverIsAlwaysBroken I sort of agree, but think that rather than 'people of the female sex should be allowed to not be exposed to penises, especially when in a vulnerable state (changing rooms, hospitals, prisons)' it should be 'people of the female sex have never consented to be exposed to strangers penises, especially when in a vulnerable state' (weren't even flipping asked, just told we should be ok, as said penis-owner identifies as a woman )

No the reason she’s finding it hard to write is because us women are socialised to make way.

There’s a long answer here to ‘she’s a woman’ but no one wants to have it. And when people attempt to it opens up avenues for individuals like yourselves to confused kindness, acceptance and accommodation as something else.

So the short answer is no. This person isn’t a woman. And I am no longer entertaining it for atleast another couple of decades until society has proven its capable of a bit of unspoken sense and nuance.

At last, a more subtle question.

The answer is no, naked or semi-naked women should not be subject to a strange male's gaze, no matter the state of his genitals.

If you have, or have ever had a penis, pleas use men's or campaign for third space.

There are clearly many women who wish to have safe mixed-sex spaces, do they'll stand with you.

The rest of us will continue to expect our single-sex spaces to be just that, single-sex.

The responses here are crazy, utterly crazy. Do you all realise that you are just giving ammunition to those who shout ‘terf’ whenever a woman raises an objection?
I believe that woman’s rights should not be trampled on but for goodness sake - this person is just minding their own business, enjoying using a swimming pool, using the communal facilities as suggested. For whatever reason they needed to put a swim cap in a locker. Maybe they got confused, maybe there are no lockers in the communal area, maybe they were given a key at reception and it was only for the women’s changing. All of those are infinitely more likely reasons than this person wanting to assault an elderly woman.
Some of you ought to be ashamed of what you have written here - it is transphobic and I don’t use that term lightly.

and the argument that most assaults against women are perpetuated by men. Ok well most violent crime in London is perpetuated by young impoverished black men. Shall we just lock them all up? Oh no, of course not. Because that’s racism.

I believe most transgender people have much more difficult lives than any of us can ever understand. That doesn’t mean that biological males should compete in female sports, or go to female prisons. But it a trans woman wants to quickly put a swim cap in a locker, ffs.

No, that person was meant to use separate changing space for the protection of women's dignity, fgs.

Are you really ok with you mother being semi-naked in the space with a clearly male stranger? Would she be ok with it?

Nah, you're just 'giving ammunition', according to some

I'm sure your post will be cropped and posted on Twitter soon enough as proof of terfy madness

Ah, I see it was removed before it could be cropped for Twitter, fair play MNHQ

@Aurora231 I used to think as you. Believe me, I have the outmost compassion for anyone suffering.

but my understanding is that the transwoman entered the single sex, female changing room as women were changing? Some may have experienced sexual assault. Why do we think “poor transwoman, probably had a difficult life” and not “what if a woman in a state of undress had been sexually assaulted and was triggered by seeing a penis person go past when naked?”.

why are women’s feelings worth less than biological males?

If a transwoman wants to put a swim cap in a locker, the transwoman can quickly put it in the men's lockers.

The men are the ones who need to be kind and understanding.

And if that is ammunition then so be it me.

I'm tired of being afraid of saying that women are a sex class worthy of respect.

The responses here are crazy, utterly crazy. Do you all realise that you are just giving ammunition to those who shout ‘terf’

No, you are the crazy one for pretending that men in women's changing rooms is no big deal.

And some just didn't ever consider this a possibility within our social contract.

It is not an accepted view that women should be ok in the same space as males, when women are naked or otherwise vulnerable, however those males identify.

Please see the latest YouGov stats.

It would appear that way

The responses here are crazy, utterly crazy. Do you all realise that you are just giving ammunition to those who shout ‘terf’ whenever a woman raises an objection?

Oh the witch ducking argument.

If you object you confirm you are crazy, mad, terf, bigot, are overruled and lose intimate spaces to any male bodied person who states to the management that they identify as female.

If you don't object you lose your privacy and safe spaces and admit any male bodied person who states to the management that they identify as female.

How lucky that that predators and perverts never misuse such situations. 🙄

The men are the ones who need to be kind and understanding - this, rinse and repeat.

@Noonecaresifyounamechange maybe because "she" has a cock and balls?

'If you don't object you lose your privacy and safe spaces and admit any male bodied person who states to the management that they identify as female' - the only answer here can be 'no, thank you'.

I object!