Harry miller arrested

[chilling19]

twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1jMJgemEeybKL

I haven't admonished anyone for discussing the issue, which is probably why you opted to quote me out of context.

Perhaps the police have overreacted, we haven't got a great deal of info here. You can be arrested for a hate crime for using swastika imagery so it's hardly surprising some action was taken.

My views on gender align with many of those on FWR; I'd like to see single sex spaces properly protected and I'm concerned about erasure in health care. But anyone comparing trans issues to Nazi Germany isn't someone I would seek to defend or make apologies for.

I think whilst the transactivists behave like immature children they will continue to make our point for us. It seems they can't help themselves to use the power they have created to call out anyone who does not agree with their dogma. Just like with Kelly Jay they play into the hands of people who oppose their authoritarianism by being authoritarian themselves.

Do we don't know if it was a transactivist who reported their anxiety at seeing four of the progress flags reoriented in this manner? Remember the flags were in no way photoshopped or edited just placed in a pattern.

It strikes me that HM was pretty keen to get arrested so it could be posted on FB.

Terrifying rather than funny

But anyone comparing trans issues to Nazi Germany isn't someone I would seek to defend or make apologies for.

The comparison is how TRAs leverage the police to silence people and punish them for wrong think

The judge in Harry's court of appeal said recording people for wrong think was unlawful and that we do not have the cheka, stasi or gestapo in the Uk.

That's where the reference comes from

But anyone comparing trans issues to Nazi Germany isn't someone I would seek to defend or make apologies for.

Comparing trans activists to Nazi Germany. Again, you’re not it getting right.

• Say something someone takes offence to
• Report it to a higher authority
• Higher authority uses police power to punish those who said the offensive thing.

They proved their authoritarian perspective by reacting to the thing calling them authoritarian in an authoritarian way.

Can you not see a comparison at all? If not Nazis then what else? The Stasi? I’ve always felt it analogous to McCarthyism personally. But it’s sometimes that’s for sure.

*I don't think it's particularly funny. Lawrence fox is someone I find unpleasant, objectionable and irritating. Harry seems like the kind of man I dread dealing with in my professional capacity and would swerve where possible.

but you do understand that we aren't 'defending' a swastika being used we are defending the right of people to be (in my opinion) unpleasant, objectionable and irritating without getting arrested for having those views.

Because who defines what is objectionable? Or irritating? Or unpleasant?*

Exactly.

It isn’t about making apologies. I’m not making apologies. This just isn’t illegal. They are entitled to do things you or I might find offensive. That’s what pluralism looks like. The opposite is totalitarianism.

Because who defines what is objectionable? Or irritating? Or unpleasant?

Well Mumsnet absolutely can define that. As can Twitter and Facebook seemingly. It seems to be that social media is dictating very successfully how real life should be pleased hence it leaking out into the police force. If the government could find a way to manage social media I suspect this shit would quieten down.

• should be policed

This thread is about harry being arrested

so thats what i am going to address

as far as i can see from the video and the information ive seen here and elsewhere harry was arrested for ‘complaining’ that the police did not follow the correct procedures when talking to the person who posted the picture

i’ll tell you whats a ‘dark day’ ….its when people who would like the police to obey their own rules when interacting with members of the public are arrested

So once again police have walked right into a set up. The issue is not whether or not we believe something is right or wrong. Its whether its a a crime that matters. And if it isn't then why are police getting involved. Especially when actual crimes are going un responded to.

There are lots if things that are offensive/wrong/disgusting/racist/sexist/threatening etc that are posted on twitter/social media. I mean at one point it was full of MAPs openly posting about being a MAP. None of which police showed up for.

They are allowing themselves to be showed up as idiots. For people who's livelihood is meant to be investigating and putting entire cases together requiring a huge degree of intelligence, they have walked into this with disturbing ease.

Faith in the police is at an.all time low. Amd without the cooperation of the public they cant do their jobs. Sadly police have picked their side. And its not us.

it does seem that some people struggle with the idea of free speech even for those they disagree with

as a PP pointed out, free speech types are often dicks. I consider these two men to be total dicks

and yet I'll strongly defend their right to be dicks because that protects my right to civil discourse about things I consider to be important

i’ll tell you whats a ‘dark day’ ….its when people who would like the police to obey their own rules when interacting with members of the public are arrested

admirably getting to the heart of the matter Rufus

the police have behaved with extreme stupidity here (and yes, I would guess harry secretly punched the air when he was arrested)

Dark day for mumsnet😂

This! It was a cuntish thing to do frankly but just I think it makes them look like cunts doesn’t mean they should be arrested

It makes the police look worse than either LF or HM and it is a perfect demonstration about who had the power. The police don't turn up for actual crimes or step in when women are being manhandled by TRAs
Dark day for mumsnet my arse

Has the power

You do have to wonder if the principles of free speech would be getting quite so much support on MN if the person involved was a TRA.

I agree. I don't think it's "hilarious", and I think even tenuous links to neo-nazism should be taken very seriously.

That said, I'm not sure whether the police actually have the power to arrest someone over this. And then the idea of a police state, where wrong-think is a crime, is just as chilling. I really don't know where I stand on this one.

I condemn the conviction of count dankula too

and what he did was repellent

@namechange7654

There are no links to neo-Nazism here. The use of the swastika is nothing to do with the person using it believing in Nazism. It is the direct opposite. When did criticising fascism become the same as being a fascist? And to whose benefit is that shift?

When did criticising fascism become the same as being a fascist?

So the Pride Swastika was a critique on Fascism?

I found the original flag rearrangement mildly funny, seeing it as pointing out an accidental design fail - a bit like the 2012 Olympic "Simpson" images. Once seen hard to forget.

DH saw it as mildly offensive.

OK, move on.

This has taken it to a whole different level. Yes the police have been set up, but those same police, and it was clearly an organised operation, who fell for this might equally pick on some soap seller in Salisbury, or some mother somewhere who had posted something angular on twitter. Where is the bar which takes something from offensive but legal, to illegal.

FWIW I find the trans flag both ugly and anxiety provoking. It is effectively saying we have the power that allows us to trample on your rights, because you, as a woman, don't count.