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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Harry miller arrested

464 replies

chilling19 · 28/07/2022 22:16

twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1jMJgemEeybKL

OP posts:
RufusthefIoraImissingreindeer · 29/07/2022 11:16

Nice name change there dark 😀

RufusthefIoraImissingreindeer · 29/07/2022 11:17

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 29/07/2022 10:36

Erm

you’ve just pretty much restated what that poster said

nazism was an authoritarian regime, yes?

Oh thank god I was wondering what I missed!

DarkDayForPearlClutchingVipers · 29/07/2022 11:17

RufusthefIoraImissingreindeer · 29/07/2022 11:16

Nice name change there dark 😀

Thanks, I thought the solemnity of the occassion called for a namechange.

Datun · 29/07/2022 11:18

And no, of course people don't think that TRAs are actual neo Nazis. 🙄

They think they act like them. The judge in Harry's case actually said we don't have the gestapo or the Stasi in this country. So it's not surprising.

chilling19 · 29/07/2022 11:18

Bernardblack yes, I think that is what has happened. Harry released without charge this morning.

OP posts:
DarkDayForPearlClutchingVipers · 29/07/2022 11:18

*occasion, speaking of dark days ... and please note the inclusion of 'ss' in occasion was entirely accidental and in no way a political comment on anything.

PronounssheRa · 29/07/2022 11:19

Datun · 29/07/2022 11:14

I wonder if they knew who Harry was?

My guess, boots on the ground had no idea. Senior officers do now, if they didn't before

EmmaH2022 · 29/07/2022 11:20

I did think it was grim to rearrange those flags. Not arrest worthy, just the kind of thing that doesn't help anyone.

Doyley put the point in a much better way. I felt a real punch in the gut when I saw these but the pictures say it all. And I'm not going to involve police unless it's a physical punch in the gut!

twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1541368756609421312

DarkDayForPearlClutchingVipers · 29/07/2022 11:21

From what I understand, Laurence Fox shared a picture of the flags on Facebook, this other bloke shared it, then had a visit from the police on Sunday, refused to pay a fine and attend a re-education camp, which then resulted in two vans and about six police attending his house to arrest him last night.

They didn't arrest Laurence Fox, who was there commentating. Harry Miller was there repeatedly telling them they had failed to caution Bloke A, and explaining the proper procedure, and after a while they arrested Harry for obstruction.

Datun · 29/07/2022 11:21

PronounssheRa · 29/07/2022 11:19

My guess, boots on the ground had no idea. Senior officers do now, if they didn't before

That's my guess, too. I also think they wouldn't have done it if they had known. Which makes it worse. They do all this, as long as it's not publicly known.

And if the Daily Mail do run the story, and they do show the flags, then everyone who reads the mail will instantly understand the reference and agree with it.

DarkDayforMN · 29/07/2022 11:21

Come off it. It was perfectly clearly aimed at saying that that ideology equated to Nazism. The idea that people look at that and think "Hmm, a reasoned critique on authoritarian thinking" is just absurd.

I think what this clearly reveals is that when TRAs call people Nazis they are just having mindless public tantrums.

It hasn't occurred to this person that TRAs are authoritarians (as this arrest demonstrated) and Nazis are authoritarians and that's the point being made here. They just assume it's random name calling because that's what TRAs do.

DarkDayforMN · 29/07/2022 11:22

oh I see someone else got there before me with the name change. Dammit!

DarkDayForPearlClutchingVipers · 29/07/2022 11:22

EmmaH2022 · 29/07/2022 11:20

I did think it was grim to rearrange those flags. Not arrest worthy, just the kind of thing that doesn't help anyone.

Doyley put the point in a much better way. I felt a real punch in the gut when I saw these but the pictures say it all. And I'm not going to involve police unless it's a physical punch in the gut!

twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1541368756609421312

Yes.

'For some, these flags represent diversity and inclusion.

But for many, they symbolise an ideological movement that is hostile to gay people and women’s rights, opposes free speech, legitimises violence and bullying, and hounds people out of their jobs if they fail to conform.'

I find those flags, and particularly the arrangement of them - which appears to recall the Nuremberg flags - enormously offensive. However, I would and did not call the police about it.

DarkDayForPearlClutchingVipers · 29/07/2022 11:23

DarkDayforMN · 29/07/2022 11:22

oh I see someone else got there before me with the name change. Dammit!

It's a Dark Day for all of us, don't worry!

DarkDayforMN · 29/07/2022 11:28

It's a Dark Day for all of us, don't worry!

Dark days indeed. Dark days indeed.

(I just love the portentousness of the phrase. It makes me feel like a bystander in a pub in a fantasy novel just before the main plot starts.)

DarkDayForPearlClutchingVipers · 29/07/2022 11:29

I find serried ranks of any flag disturbing, frankly.

Even if a flag starts as a joyful celebratory flourish, which the rainbow flag certainly did way back when, the uniformity and repetitive pattern soon looks authoritarian and intimidating.

Harry miller arrested
BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 29/07/2022 11:31

I’ve got no problem with police officers staying safe

I’d guess the first lot took a look at HM and LF and thought ‘big blokes, ideological nutjobs, this could kick off, I’m calling for back up’

of course the spectacle of 2 police vehicles and 6 officers being kept busy over a Facebook post could have been easily avoided by them taking no interest whatsoever in the original report

DarkDayForPearlClutchingVipers · 29/07/2022 11:32

For the avoidance of doubt: I share the picture to illustrate why I find serried ranks of flags disturbing. If we are unable to discuss fascism, with illustrative points, how will we avoid repeating the mistakes that led to war?

BlossomsOnATree · 29/07/2022 11:38

When I saw the 4 flags as swastika image (can't remember where but it seems to me like it was a few weeks ago) I didn't think it was funny, just interesting. I saw it as a statement that gender ideology is comparable to Nazism in its use of threats, coercion and pushing an ideology, and that the new flag contains elements that do recall the parts of a swastika - probably not deliberately, but it probably was deliberate to give the new elements of the flag that pointed, hard-edged aggressive vibe and position them so they appear to be dominating or taking over the old rainbow flag.

As I'm old and grew up in an era of free thought and speech (relative to now) I literally just thought "interesting commentary" and moved on. I never understand the insane paranoia and kneejerk reactions over anything Hitler- or Nazi-related. We should understand them, and comparisons to them, in the context of history like we do with anything else.

Helleofabore · 29/07/2022 11:39

Maybeonedayeventually · 29/07/2022 08:15

I haven't admonished anyone for discussing the issue, which is probably why you opted to quote me out of context.

Perhaps the police have overreacted, we haven't got a great deal of info here. You can be arrested for a hate crime for using swastika imagery so it's hardly surprising some action was taken.

My views on gender align with many of those on FWR; I'd like to see single sex spaces properly protected and I'm concerned about erasure in health care. But anyone comparing trans issues to Nazi Germany isn't someone I would seek to defend or make apologies for.

I can’t quite get over the thought that ‘dark day for Mumsnet’ is not intended to be an admonishment.

What else did you intend it to be?

Imnobody4 · 29/07/2022 11:40

Harry's just written this account.
thecritic.co.uk/the-facebook-police/

His criticism of new guidance is pretty on the ball as well.

JemimaPuddlegoose · 29/07/2022 11:42

I know no one wants to hear this, but as an Orthodox Jew and a GC feminist (who has particular concerns that the TRA movement could force observant Jewish women and women of other religious faiths into horrible positions) I find this very very frightening and sinister.

First, there has been a huge push by forces on the far right to exploit GC views in order to push a right wing agenda. I've seen lots of threads here that were overtly homophobic (claiming that teenagers can't be gay and that people are only gay if they've been groomed into it), threads attacking anything perceived as even slightly "woke" (like being against racism) as being aligned with trans rights and therefore bad, and lots of threads and posts advocating that we should support right wing men like Jordan Peterson or right wing politicians, even Donald Trump on the grounds "they know what a woman is!" Yes they know what a woman is so they know who to abuse and oppress. I won't tolerate the right exploiting our as women genuine concerns about the TRA to promote rapists and violent men who hate women and want to ban reproductive rights. It's horrifying. Men on the far right are not "GC", they are not pro-women, they just hate trans people and they hate natal women just as much.

Second, there has been some antisemitism in the GC movement. I loved the Helen Joyce book so much until the part where she started ranting that Jewish billionaires are behind the trans agenda. Yes, I know she tweeted that she's not antisemitic but as an actual Jewish person: yes, those parts are antisemitic. The libel that wealthy Jews control the world (hell, even the idea of "wealthy Jews" when statistically Jews in America have lower average incomes than almost anyone and most Haredi live in poverty) is extremely and actively dangerous. That myth directly, directly led to the Holocaust due to the German government blaming its post-Treaty of Versailles poverty on Jews and actively spreading hate propaganda claiming that German people were starving due to wealthy Jews hogging all the money, when the real reason was Germany having to pay such onerous war reparations after WWI. Joyce may not have intended her book to be antisemitic and she may not even have known that she was falling into an antisemitic trope, but she was, and it does real damage to Jewish people and Jewish women.

Anyone laughing at a swastika, or accusing Jewish women of "playing the victim card", or playing the whole "oversensitive Jews choosing to be offended" need to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror and maybe pick up a history book.

Racism and hate against Jewish women is NOT ACCEPTABLE and has no place in the GC movement.

ControversialOpening · 29/07/2022 11:42

Somebody is jabbing away at the 'report' button again.

Of course it's nothing like Nazism to shut down opinions you disagree with.

DarkDayforMN · 29/07/2022 11:43

For the avoidance of doubt: I share the picture to illustrate why I find serried ranks of flags disturbing. If we are unable to discuss fascism, with illustrative points, how will we avoid repeating the mistakes that led to war?

I wonder if you could be arrested for it if you'd shared that picture under your real name? Or perhaps only if juxtaposed with Regent Street?

It's so telling what they react to, isn't it? Ceri Black had police all over her for talking about child safeguarding. Now an arrest for pointing out the creeping authoritarianism. Wasn't another arrest for suffragette ribbons?

DarkDayforMN · 29/07/2022 11:47

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