Kemi Badenoch through to next round

[InTheCanteen]

If you have a Conservative MP and want to protect the rights of women and safeguard children please email them TONIGHT and ask them to support Kemi.

Penny Mordaunt still the bookies favourite (and they aren't often wrong) but we need to let everyone know how dangerous it will be for this woman to become PM; I don't believe she has changed her mind for one moment.

Im so glad the spirit of Rik from the Young Ones lives on through AF 😁 makes me all nostalgic

And this is why I love mumsnet. My dating life will be transformed. No more questions about whether the six foot bearded person who answered my ad about looking for a female partner is actually a lesbian, I’ll just sequence and go.

Maria Miller just appeared on Sky News and did another reverse ferret: transwomen are women, that’s the law and that’s why Mordaunt said it.

I am rapidly reaching the conclusion that those on this thread are not able to say what a woman is other than they know one when they see one, which is of course ridiculous.

I know, its scary how many people jus pt can’t tell what a woman is. It’s odd how people know that transwomen are women, but can’t define woman. So therefore, if you can’t define something, it doesn’t exist therefore transwomen can’t be women because there’s no such thing. There is however a group of humans called adult human females. I’m thinking we should call them women for short.

@Conflictedunicorn how about you tell us a what an adult human female is then?

For some reason only men are women for sure

Your mum

Ah, so you are suggesting that a woman isn't someone who has exclusively female genes as was suggested earlier in the thread.

If someone is not a mum can they be female?

Are you saying your mum doesn’t have exclusively female genes? Why would you out your mum as having a DSD on a public forum? Why do you hate your mum so much? Maybe therapy would help.

@jgw1

Would it make you happy if we did genetic testing on everyone, and anyone with male genes was legally a man, anyone without them was legally a woman, and anyone with a diagnosed DSD could choose?

@achillestoes There wouldn't be many women then would there, presuming genomes were sequenced from a selection of different cells in different parts of the body.

That’s a really good plan. It has been suggested many times, along with brain scanning to confirm TWAW, but amazingly the TRA did not want this. Surely they should be welcoming tests which could categorically prove TWAW, as that would silence all debate. It’s almost like they know they are lying about TW being women…

Most people who have a mixture of genes do not have DSD.
Why is it outing to point that out?

Are you saying a male could have female organs or like a male arm and a female leg? Really? I worry about the state of education in the youth of today. Have you told your dad he’s got a female leg?

@jgw1

Okay, would you be happy to do it at birth?

Or I’ll tell you what: let’s test for maleness instead. Let’s test all people with penises. If you can find female genetic material, let them choose their sex. If you can’t, they’re men. Do we have a deal?

For goodness sake. I think it's actually bloody juvenile to put a postmodern and frankly boorish spin on the word woman.

For millennia we have all known what a woman is.

Words have meanings, that's how we can understand text and conversation without boorishly deconstructing each other all the time.

That's why we have this word trans. In fact the debate should not actually be TWAW and TWAM, but who is trans and who isn't? As trans has been opened up as an umbrella term.

I’m really interested in @jgw1 family now. They should do ‘who do you think you are’ that’s be a fab episode. We’ve got the mum with not totally female genes and apparently the dad is Frankenstein monster with some female bits and some male hits sewn together. I think it explains a lot about @jgw1

Some women who have given birth to male children have been shown to have absorbed a tiny amount of male genetic material. @jgw1 thinks they’re being clever.

But a person developing at embryo stage with XY chromosomes, unless they are one of a tiny fraction of people with a diagnosable DSD, is a male, and a man. Some of these people believe they can become female, and this is what this is really about. Shoehorning people with medical conditions into it is contemptible.

Some women who have given birth to male children have been shown to have absorbed a tiny amount of male genetic material. @jgw1 thinks they’re being clever.

oh right how novel

It’s an odd take when I’m sure the same people confidentially state TWAW

Yet women are not women

If we assessed all embryos there’d be a tiny proportion that didn’t fit the usual male / female outcome

I share your concern that too many people seem to think that all they were taught at school is 100% correct. Many things are simplified to aid understanding.
For example it is taught at school that 100% of our own genes are the same in every cell of our body.

@MarshaBradyo

Let’s do it. Settle all the issues. If you’re genetically atypical you get special considerations. Everyone else does not.

(This isn’t my real view. I’m just pointing out that @jgw’s points are nothing to do with being trans.)

Who has lied sorry haven't read full thread.

In terms of the only women born with a vagina are women - who is the best candidate on this point?

I thought we had reached a point on this thread that those who are not XY are women, apparently not. It is all very confusing.