Kemi Badenoch through to next round

[InTheCanteen]

If you have a Conservative MP and want to protect the rights of women and safeguard children please email them TONIGHT and ask them to support Kemi.

Penny Mordaunt still the bookies favourite (and they aren't often wrong) but we need to let everyone know how dangerous it will be for this woman to become PM; I don't believe she has changed her mind for one moment.

Very helpful thank you.
I take it you mean no y chromosomes in any cells and you are a woman.
A useful and workable definition.

I do hope that no one is along to contradict it anytime soon.

Sure, you're welcome. If you have something to add, please do.

Yes, I honestly thought that losing the Red Wall might lead to a bit of self reflection but it seems not.

No, nothing to add. I just wanted clarity on what was meant when people said such and such knows what a woman is, and I have an answer.
XX in every cell, not a trace of anything else.

I shall seek to spread the good news.

I do hope that no one is along to contradict it anytime soon.

"Nice place definition you've got there. Be a shame if anything happened to it."

Say hi to the Reddit crowd 😂😂😂😂

Hello reddit crowd.

(What is a reddit crowd?)

We have a solution

great no more questions on same tack, LK your prize is in the post

@jgw1 so you don't know what male or female are, or what reddit is. Are there other well-known things you're not aware of? Do you know what Twitter is, or a horse?

I don't know why it is always on us to define what a woman is. We go by the same definition the rest of the world does and always has. If I declare myself to be Korean, is the onus on Korea to provide a definition, or is the onus on me to explain what on earth I mean by that?

On Sky News:

Beth Rigby: Do you think women have the right to exclude transwomen from some spaces, that’s all I want to know?

PM: Yes. I do.

Lol, unsurprisingly for current times, there's a bloke who identifies as a Korean non-binary person www.insider.com/oli-london-korean-trolls-hate-death-threats-surgery-2022-2?amp

No, nothing to add. I just wanted clarity on what was meant when people said such and such knows what a woman is, and I have an answer.
XX in every cell, not a trace of anything else.

Not sure how to quote a post, but I would be slightly cautious with this definition. I agree that biological women are genetically XX (excepting dsd), however the not a trace of anything else is probably wrong in a lot/most women who have carried a male fetus. Micrchimerism was actually discovered through the presence of Y chromosome in womens brains years after they gave birth. It is quite a nice idea for women who have lost children that you do actually carry a bit of them around with you.

However, this is not the same as having Y chromosomes in your cells causing your body to make hormones, receptors etc that would cause masculinisation. The traces of fetal michrochimerism are tiny. Women remain genetically XX in their genotype.

I am not seeking to undermine this definition, but don’t want an argument with a flaw to undermine the whole premise. Therefore the “not a trace of anything else” is probably best not used.

I didn't use 'a trace of', it's our curiously ignorant visitor. I did suggest mothers of boys have traces. It's not exactly an unknown fact.

Oh, do you have to go and ruin the fun.

We had a perfectly good definition of what a woman was, and now you have ruined it with your science.

That the definition that we agreed about a few hours ago, excluded almost every woman from being a woman, is kind of beside the point.

I am not sure why you think I don't know what male and female are.

Its not me that goes around pronouncing that so and so doesn't know what a woman is, but then themselves can't actually come up with a workable definition of a woman.

@jgw1 oh, sweetie, that's very clever of you to know what male and female is. Will you please share with the class, we're all a-flutter

I’m on the edge of my seat. @jgw1 come on, share this profound knowledge. You know you want to.

I think we need a tumbleweed emoji on mumsnet, to attach to extremely 'knowledgeable' posters who disappear when asked to provide their definitions, like jgw.

Such a shame, we'll never know now and will continue in our bigoted ignorance forever

I am still happy with my definition, given a fair few pages back of ‘woman= adult human female, female = of the sex class that can make eggs/bear young.’

i haven’t seen anything that would make me change that definition. I think all the chromosome information gives is further detail round the edges, as it were.

I also haven’t seen anything that makes me think that definition is wrong, or lacking.

But back to Kemi. I think, on reflection, I would prefer either Liz Truss or Rishi Sunak. I trust both of them to uphold female only spaces. But I hope Kemi gets a good position.

Good grief the sneering and wilful stupidity is strong in this one.

Once again for the hard of thinking. Female=XX, X0, XXX etc chromasomally and generally leading to that person developing ova, uterus and once through puberty periods and potential to gestate young should they so chose. The presence of fetal DNA, mosaicism, DSDs, medical conditions affecting fertility, menopause etc does not mean someone is not female any more than it does in any other mammal and anymore than the fact that some people have decidual additional digits or additional whole chromosomes means that genetically that person is not human. And before we go back to ‘it’s not as simple as what you learned at school’ I am aware of that. Having been through medical school, research jobs postgraduate training and exams and spent the last 15 years practicing medicine.

Funny how everyone knows what constitutes male and female when it comes to access to abortion, reproductive rights, the caring burden and who to pay less for the same work.

And back on the topic of the thread…
I heard Lord Frost is urging Kemi to pull out so her supporters go for Liz Truss and in exchange she gets a high up cabinet post. She’s refused. I can’t decide if I like that she’s standing by her self belief or frustrated that she’s not more pragmatic.

Not that I want her or Liz Truss to win I just think Penny Mordaunt is another Boris character and clearly has no problem bending the truth (or lying outright).

Didn't we agree this earlier?
Only those who are exclusively XX.

Interesting she refused

I think I want Truss even less than PM but I need to hear more ftom
both