Why the hate?

[Aqublu]

One thing I really don’t get about mumsnet is all the trans- hate could anyone really explain why there’s so much hate really. I’d just like to add really that there needs to be a separation from misogyny and transphobia when mumsnet mums talk about trans people they’re both issues but trans people haven’t started misogyny so I don’t know why they’re blamed for it all the time.

Could you define ‘trans hate’ for us please, then link to a couple of examples.

Please report any transphobic comments you have found as we would all want them to be removed.

Thank you for coming here to tell us this startling news. You really are the first person ever to start a thread to tell us this.

It really is helpful to all of the women who regularly post here, to have someone come and explain that trans issues and misogyny are not the same. Perhaps as women we are just so used to seeing misogyny everywhere, that we cannot distinguish the subtleties - but do feel free to enlighten us.

Then, we can try to do better so that you can go off and police the actual transphobic websites - wherever they are, and not bother us.

It’s not trans hate, it’s a genuine concern that women’s sex based rights and needs are being eroded.

For eg if you don’t think it’s unfair for male bodied people to compete against women in sports, why not?

If some female prisoners are being raped by male bodied inmates who identify as women, why don’t you care about the women who have been attacked?

if sexual abuse survivors are too scared to go to a support group because the rights of male bodied people to attend are being favoured over the needs of women, why is that ok?

if children and young people are being actively encouraged to engage in hormone treatments and irreversible physical surgery before they are able to fully consent, why is that not wrong?

can you answer any of those questions?

Assuming you're genuine I have no hate whatsoever for trans people. Some trans people (but definitely not all) believe in trans ideology - that humans can change sex, have "gendered souls" and that segregation by gender instead of sex for safeguarding and sports is meaningful.

I don't believe in trans ideology. Or in any other religion or quasi religion.

I have friends and neighbours and family that do believe in things I dont. I don't hate any of them!

I do have the same expectations for transwomen as any other male human though. I expect and require them to understand women's boundaries and not override them. To not abuse their patriachal privilege. I don't think that is hate.

If you think that is "transphobia" then I'm afraid I think you are transphobic to have such a low opinion of transwomen.

Agree with previous poster than any hate you see should be reported and hopefully removed.
Do you have some specific examples of these kinds of posts that have not been removed?

Not believing in or agreeing with gender ideology /= hate.

I have no idea what you are talking about wrt trans people being blamed for misogyny. Also, not all MN posters are mums, not all are women.

trans people haven’t started misogyny so I don’t know why they’re blamed for it all the time.

You seem to be echoing JKR there:

‘Feminazi’, ‘TERF’, ‘bitch’, ‘witch’.

Times change. Woman-hate is eternal.

I don't think anyone is claiming "trans people" started misogyny. A nebulous group of people isn't being blamed for misogyny existing as a abstract or novel concept. But patterns of misogynistic behaviour are being called out.

Trans rights advocates are not going to be given a pass for the way they treat women like JKR or those here who disagree.

I have not seen any transphobia on mumsnet, I do see a group of amazing women who are passionate about ensuring women’s rights are not eroded by anyone who is not natally a woman.

☝️☝️☝️ This

Why is being concerned that self id will allow men to access women's spaces seen as 'trans hate'? I don't get why you don't understand this. Should we explain it again? More slowly.

but trans people haven’t started misogyny so I don’t know why they’re blamed for it all the time.

////

Some trans people are biologically male so actually in many cases there will be cross over.

@Aqublu I hope you aren't going to do a plop and run, and actually stay to answer people's posts in response to your provocative opener.

When you say trans hate, do you mean failure to prioritise trans women in every situation and believing that other groups have equal rights and a set of needs they have a right to expect to be met and that how they feel matters as well?

Shake it off, OP.

Hate is an overused word these days. It appears to mean 'somebody said something I didn't agree with' much of the time. Impatience with people being wilfully stupid or refusing to use their critical faculties isn't hate either.

The dancers in silver suits do some REALLY cool moves, fyi.

I've never seen any hate here.

It's impossible to change your biological sex, women's rights to safe spaces are being eroded and children are being groomed into a dangerous 'trend'. All these things are true, and need discussing.

But that doesn't mean that any of us hate trans people. I generally treat people as I would expect to be treated myself. I'll use someone's preferred pronouns if it makes them feel better, but that doesn't mean I'm not gender critical. Don't confuse hate with reality.

Haven't seen any trans hate. Why are you pretending it exists?

Very odd behaviour.

I have so much hate in my heart that I need somewhere to spew my bile. I come to Mumsnet for a daily dose of trans-bashing.

Soothes the soul.

Again?

And why is the grammar always terrible?

"Trans hate" and "transphobia" is what gender ideology calls not wanting to have women's rights and children's safety destroyed by beliefs that are not based in reality.

I don't hate any trans person for being trans. That would be transphobia.

I do have a problem with being expected to believe and pretend I go along with nonsense, and women being expected to put up with males in their safe spaces just because they "identify as women". A male cannot be female or vice versa, and that is not transphobia, it's simply a fact - a fact that many trans people themselves understand. If that fact changed, and there was clear scientific evidence to show it (not pseudoscience, actual peer-reviewed science that showed people could literally change sex) I would happily change my mind.

Likewise I object to children being told they are trans and must be the opposite sex just because they don't conform to gender stereotypes that feminists have been fighting against for decades. And then being given harmful, untested and irreversible treatments they often come to regret.

I am objecting to a false, unevidenced and harmful ideology. Not to trans people. There are many trans people who agree with this stance too.

However, there are people who do actually hate trans people for the sake of it and want to persecute and harm them. Actual bigots. Oddly enough the gender ideologists never seem to make that much of a fuss about them and instead just go for women who want to discuss women's and children's rights and safety.

I have seen plenty of hate here. Comes from people like OP. Popping onto MN to tell us what they think of us. Never listening, rarely reading, never engaging.

They are usually deleted for being for being silly.

Also if you want to see what "so much hate" looks like, have you seen how gender ideologists speak about women and the threats, including rape and death threats, they make towards feminists? It's far far worse and more hateful than anything I have ever seen anyone say about a trans person on MN.

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Recommended.