Why the hate?

[Aqublu]

One thing I really don’t get about mumsnet is all the trans- hate could anyone really explain why there’s so much hate really. I’d just like to add really that there needs to be a separation from misogyny and transphobia when mumsnet mums talk about trans people they’re both issues but trans people haven’t started misogyny so I don’t know why they’re blamed for it all the time.

Would such a thread, entitled 'It will never happen- resource thread - lesbian crimes' constitute hate against lesbians?

The thing you don't seem to understand is that most transwomen don't want the 'right' to get their cock out in front of women or compete in women's sports. Most trans people know what sex they are.

The people arguing for the right to identify as the opposite sex do not speak for trans people.

It's a parallel argument about what a person might consider constitutes 'hate' towards a minority group.

Would the example that I have given - of people who are (erroneously to my mind) hugely concerned about the risks posed by lesbians and want to gather evidence to show why everyone be concerned, and so start a resource thread of examples of crimes committed by lesbians - would this constitute hate against lesbians in general?

If any other demographic committed violent and sexual crime in the numbers men do and the proportion men do, there'd be mass hysteria and we'd do nothing but talk about it.

When it's men it's 🤷‍♀️

It's a parallel argument about what a person might consider constitutes 'hate' towards a minority group.

What is it parallel to?

FWR isn't collecting evidence that a particular group are prone to criminality. Putting forward that theory will get you a strike.

FWR is putting forward the argument that Self ID policies are exploited by criminals to endanger women. The debate is about public policy and law and how they protect women or not.

If any other demographic committed violent and sexual crime in the numbers men do and the proportion men do, there'd be mass hysteria and we'd do nothing but talk about it.

This is the only parallel I can see but men are not a minority.

If there was objective evidence that lesbians committed violent and sexual crimes at the rates men do then I wouldn't consider discussion of that to be hateful.

Where did the OP go?

They has gone to shake it off.

I'm an atheist. I do not hate people who believe in god/s. I disagree with them about the existence of gods. I don't mind them going to places of worship or reading religious texts. I certainly don't mind them living their lives peaceably with their religion.

If they were to campaign against say, abortion rights then we'd be on opposite sides of a campaign. But I don't want them to not exist or not be allowed their religion etc.

I am gender critical. I do not hate people who put store in gender identity. I disagree with them about the significance of gender. I don't mind them living their lives peaceably with their gender identity.

If they were to campaign against say, single sex spaces for women then we'd be on opposite sides of a campaign. But I don't want them to not exist or not be allowed their gender identity etc.

It is not hate to believe that because single sex spaces and sports are about our bodies that they should be segregated according to biological sex (objective, verifiable, permanent etc) and not gender identity (subjective, fluid, unverifiable).

If someone feels their personality is more stereotypically feminine than masculine and want to present more in accordance with that, crack on. Absolutely don't be restricted by outdated sexist stereotypes. But they don't get to dictate that other people should flawlessly perceive them as the opposite sex or that they should suddenly be allowed into single sex spaces designated for the opposite sex.

Because they haven't changed sex.

Catholics shouldn't donate communion wine to the blood bank. Sometimes reality matters more than metaphor and belief.

Another plopper, and going by the writing style, teenage.

How original.

You've missed the point of the It Will Never Happen thread. It's about people abusing self ID.

I don't believe that God exists. That doesn't mean I hate Christians. I would hope they would afford me the same courtesy.

I dint believe transwomen are women. That doesn't mean I hate transpeople.

The simple fact is that 98% of sexual crime is perpetrated by males, and no one can give any evidence for what the objective point is at which transwomen cease to be male.

Then, @maddy68 given that the OP is one of those who will not explain, could you tell us what it is that you have seen that is so upsetting?

Because, unless it is the factual statements about sex being immutable etc, then I am at a loss!

'Hate'?

So you think you were born male and now are a woman? A woman who has become a man? A girl who is changing to become a boy? Neither male nor female? A blue-arsed flying cat with polka dot wings a dick for a tail and a thousand lonely green eyes? Be my guest. I don't care.

I might think you're as daft as a brush. Lots of people are daft. No skin off my nose. Really, I don't care.

Hate? Hate? Get over yourself. Hate indeed.

True enough, if you don't piss off and leave me and my kids alone, I might start despising you. But hate ? You're not that important.

But as a collective this is what is being done. As individuals we dip in and out of the data sets. As a group we collate them for use by one and all.

No hive mind needed. Just a loose sisterhood of like minded, anonymous women.

oh.... it is Aqublu!

We have asked them for some evidence to substantiate their claims on a couple of threads lately.... maybe that is hate?????

No answering posts so I don't know if it is an established pattern (one or two posts and then leave) or was it because there was no evidence to be posted.

Anyway OP. I too am here and looking forward to seeing examples of the hate that you accused MN of hosting. Please be specific.

Oh, I thought @Aqublu was asking on the Feminism board why the world hates women.

Silly me

GoodThinkingMax

You would think that Max. But from the posts I have seen, that would not be in the pattern of posting by the OP.

Oh how surprising!

Not

Plopper. Was ever thus.

A more interesting question is why do people think its acceptable to jump in to the middle of a relatively complex issue, with a loaded question and then not bother to listen to any answers.

Is it coz I is a woman?

this over-representation was due to increased inherent criminality in lesbians

Lesbians are women so this is a poor analogy. MTF trans people are male, so are going to statistically have a male pattern criminality rather than a female one. It's not some special prejudice against trans people, it's just an understanding of male pattern violence. Hope that helps.

It's because they, by virtue of being extremely young with no life experience yet, know everything and we, being (as they assume, incorrectly) all 'mums' are just airheads who need to be put straight on the important issues.

What do you think about people researching lesbian pattern criminality who believe the crime figures and the vast overrepresentation of lesbians and bisexual women in US jails show that there is lesbian/ bisexual woman pattern violence?

Even though I have Shake It Off on a playlist on my phone, I started singing the Shake N Vac song in my head.

<misses point of thread>

[There was a point to this thread? - Ed]