Why the hate?

[Aqublu]

One thing I really don’t get about mumsnet is all the trans- hate could anyone really explain why there’s so much hate really. I’d just like to add really that there needs to be a separation from misogyny and transphobia when mumsnet mums talk about trans people they’re both issues but trans people haven’t started misogyny so I don’t know why they’re blamed for it all the time.

This is just E&W? How many prisons are there in E&W?

5 seems quite high a number, given that that means there are currently five mixed sex prisons in the UK. Five prisons that have knowingly incarcerated rapists with females.

'It's only five males' is, I have to note, taken from the male point of view.

It only requires one male to cause lifelong trauma to however many victims he may access. From the point of view of a woman locked in a building with a known rapist, the fact that there's 'only one' rapist in the building is ... not at all reassuring, tbh.

No chance; the OP at 25/05/2022 14:30 is the only post on the thread from AquBlu. Easy to find out using "see all" under the post: there is nothing to see.

Risk assessment? I see. How many woman is one male rapist capable of assaulting, type of thing?

Don't be ridiculous. Lesbians are female, so should go to a women's prison if they are convicted of a crime. Men are male, however they identify, so should be in a men's prison.

Or are you suggesting that all prisons should be mixed sex?

Please, please tell us suggestions exactly who is trying to register lesbians committing crimes as something other than lesbians committing crimes?

Who? Exactly?

Just about everything else you bring up is sparple. It is whataboutery. It is irrelevant to the very reason why that thread is in existence on this board.

Again. Please keep on going because we will simply keep repeating the same thing over.

Because it does not change WHY that thread is in existence.

The reason that thread is in existence is because transitioned males have sought to have their crimes recorded and reported as female crimes and then sought access to female prisons.

The impact of obfuscating transitioned male sex crimes in amongst female crimes is to hide the true rate of committing those sex crimes. Transitioned males also wish to have their safeguarding risk and processes be treated as female which are different to males.

These are the facts that are relevant to that thread you have brought all these other points up in a still false analogy.

It only requires one male to cause lifelong trauma to however many victims he may access. From the point of view of a woman locked in a building with a known rapist, the fact that there's 'only one' rapist in the building is ... not at all reassuring, tbh.

Yes. If we are going to go into this whataboutery, I am completely blown away by the lack of acknowledgement of the damage and harm ONE male can do. Let alone 5 ( and let's not forget that Scotland had some and they are not included in that figure).

Wiki says 15 women's prisons in England (none in Wales).

So potentially one in three prisons has a rapist! Is that good odds? I don't think that's good odds.

On balance, I think the optimum number of rapists allowed into women's prisons is zero.

You make it sound like transwomen are identifying as women with the sole intent of access to a 'lower risk' group. Why would you think that, as opposed to thinking they genuinely identify as female?

The reason we think that is because it's known to happen.

This is the evidence given to the House of Commons Women and Equalities Select Committee inquiry into transgender equality in 2015 by Dr James Barrett, who at the time was president of the British Association of Gender Identity Specialists.

data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/women-and-equalities-committee/transgender-equality/written/19532.pdf

In it he says:
The converse is the ever-increasing tide of referrals of patients in prison serving long or indeterminate sentences for serious sexual offences. These vastly outnumber the number of prisoners incarcerated for more ordinary, non-sexual, offences. It has been rather naïvely suggested that nobody would seek to pretend transsexual status in prison if this were not actually the case. There are, to those of us who actually interview the prisoners, in fact very many reasons why people might pretend this. These vary from the opportunity to have trips out of prison through to a desire for a transfer to the female estate (to the same prison as a co-defendant) through to the idea that a parole board will perceive somebody who is female as being less dangerous through to a [false] belief that hormone treatment will actually render one less dangerous through to wanting a special or protected status within the prison system and even (in one very well evidenced case that a highly concerned Prison Governor brought particularly to my attention) a plethora of prison intelligence information suggesting that the driving force was a desire to make subsequent sexual offending very much easier, females being generally perceived as low risk in this regard. I am sure that the Governor concerned would be happy to talk about this.

Let's not forget why transitioned males don't want to be in the specifically built trans wings as well:

I think it’s like segregation. It’s like saying that they are different when we’re all trying to say we’re all the same. I think a separate wing would be highly inappropriate because it is segregation again which we outlawed years ago

I was in a protection hall, I got kept in protection for my own safety, because of it [being transgender]. In my opinion, it was a way to go, right, get rid of you. I’m a pain because they’re having to do things out of the ordinary, if you know what I mean.

I don’t like that idea [of a transgender wing] because...the problem is like. For example, say you’ve got one autistic person. The last thing you want to do is put them...loads of autistic people in the same room because they’re not going to get along. Just because they’re autistic doesn’t mean they like each other and it’s in the same sense as putting. There were two transgender people when I was down in [prison in England] and one of them, [name of prisoner], none of us could stand, because she was one of those ones where she shoved it in your face.

discovery.dundee.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/54221542/Final_Published_Version.pdf

At the time this document was collating feedback, there were 11 transitioned males in prison in Scotland. They did not say which estate they were in. However, Maycock's later study would indicate that some of these were most definitely in the female prison estate.

I can't do a full length post right now, but I'm just popping in to point out that the Home Office issues a population bulletin every week, which records the number of people incarcerated.

On Friday, it was recorded that there were 76, 970 men and 3,215 women incarcerated. That number of rapists does not seem an insignificant number to me.

Well, duh. They are females so of course would be in a female prison.

Good lord.

Why don't you say: "Are you telling me it is acceptable for any lesbian convicted of sexual assault to be housed in a female prison estate with women who have been convicted of white collar crime"?

Should we start posting the physical advantages that sports scientists and biologists have researched here.

Things like grip strength, punch power etc.

I really think suggestions is trying to twist this into some kind of shape to work for their analogy, but it simply continues to fail. Every single fucking time.

There are other reasons as well as propensity for committing the crime to consider. And that is that males have a much greater ability to forcibly restrain a female and commit sexual assault, rape and violence and any type of violation.

Or are we supposed to conveniently forget that fact?

The whataboutery seems endless but it really isn't anything we have not discussed in depth on these boards before.

Oh, surely suggestions wasn't suggesting that women are just as strong, large and violent as males? Because that would be absurd.

Indeed Magnolia.

It all comes back to that doesn’t it though? Otherwise, it must be homophobia that Suggestions would be indulging in to suggest that anywhere else in life female adults are segregated from other female adults based on their sexual orientation.

Maybe @Aqublu did not realise it is very poor form to start a thread and then disappear.

The same day this thread was last posted on, the South Shields Gazette was reporting on a sex offender who was treated more punitively because of their transgender status.

Just kidding! No they weren't. If you think this is overly harsh, I ask again, what sentence is suitable for these offences? I didn't get an answer last time.

extract

Selby collected a vile online catalogue over a ten year period, using internet search terms such as "pre teen" and "jail bait".

Police found the images, which included pictures and movies featuring children as young as three, on three separate devices which were seized after a house search.

Selby, who identifies as transgender, confessed immediately to owning the collection and said an interest in adult pornography had "morphed" into looking at illegal images.

(Continues)

The judge said nobody could be drawn into looking at such images "unless they have a sexual interest in children to start with" and added that the extreme pornography "shows just how deviant your sexual desires are".

The judge added: "You identify as transgender and that has caused issues for you and anxiety for you in how you would cope with that if you were sent immediately to prison."

Selby was sentenced to 14 months imprisonment, suspended for two years, with rehabilitation requirements and has to sign the sex offenders register and abide by a sexual harm prevention order for ten years.

The judge said the sentence could be suspended because Selby has sought counselling in a bid to become rehabilitated after being arrested in 2019 and has poor health.

She added: "You are someone who identifies as transgender and the impact of custody would be significant for you in the circumstances.

"The pre-sentence report has assessed you as being manageable in the community."

The court heard Selby has committed no further offences, has sought professional help and has family responsibilities.

www.shieldsgazette.com/news/crime/south-shields-pervert-caught-with-over-125000-child-abuse-images-3717922