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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 10

1004 replies

ickky · 21/05/2022 10:36

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)

To come?
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, to continue on 25th May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge.
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Pyjamagame · 23/05/2022 08:47

For me watching the tribunal my feelings are mixed. I range from horrified (by the treatment of Allison) to shocked (by intelligent people having a complete failure of logic) to schadenfreude (to see all this absolute lunacy laid bare for all to see). I'm not ashamed at all to be enjoying parts of it, rooting for Ben and Allison. And yes there is some amusement to be had as well as well as huge dollops of raging anger.

ickky · 23/05/2022 09:02

It's a 9.30am Start today, we don't know who the next witness is yet.

OP posts:
EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 23/05/2022 09:11

ickky · 23/05/2022 09:02

It's a 9.30am Start today, we don't know who the next witness is yet.

With luck, the witness does so the tribunal is not waiting around like they were for SK (?) last week.

Birdsweepsin · 23/05/2022 09:12

IdisagreeMrHochhauser · 22/05/2022 23:20

I don't think we're enjoying it. It feels like history being made and for me, as a one time admirer of Stonewall and a bisexual woman, this really feels like an era defining moment within the LGBT "community".

It's a fight that many of us have wanted to take on for years and haven't had the opportunity or the strength. This is Allison's fight, yes, but she's fighting for all of us and we're right there behind her, cheering her on.

I was going to say something about not being in a position to judge 'history being made' until it has been.

But then I thought about it a bit more, and I think you're right @IdisagreeMrHochhauser . And my respect for Allison has grown even more, if that's possible

FourExcellentQuestions · 23/05/2022 09:24

How long did it take them to send you the link when you requested it? I emailed last week but didn't get a response. Tried again this morning.

FacebookPhotos · 23/05/2022 09:34

I'm watching for the first time today. How do you check that your video is off?

ThinkWittyThoughts · 23/05/2022 09:34

I've caught up! It's taken me all weekend and the rate of threads being started (outstanding work itsy)

And now I'm going to fall behind again...

Thank you everyone for your contributions - the witty & the wise. I AM enjoying witnessing women stand up for themselves, be bloody amazing (AB & EJ spring to mind) and I'm enjoying BC skewer the warped thoughts of genderists.

Well done Allison for your fortitude & bravery.

ickky · 23/05/2022 09:36

Looks like it's Marc Willers this morning.

OP posts:
PinkTonic · 23/05/2022 09:36

Is there a black screen for everyone at the mo? Have joined on iPad instead of laptop

User237845 · 23/05/2022 09:36

FacebookPhotos · 23/05/2022 09:34

I'm watching for the first time today. How do you check that your video is off?

@FacebookPhotos either you will have two little icons on your screen to the left of the main phone call button which will be crossed out, or go up to the padlock where the URL is and press on it and it will have camera and microphone crossed off up there.

CatsOperatingInGangs · 23/05/2022 09:38

PinkTonic · 23/05/2022 09:36

Is there a black screen for everyone at the mo? Have joined on iPad instead of laptop

No, you should be in. Come out and go back in. I found it worked best on Safari on iPad

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 23/05/2022 09:39

For me personally, what I 'enjoy' with this is seeing the process & watching the professionalism & skill of the QCs at work. Being able to see up close how QCs work, and how a case is built up or unravelled by the questioning that goes on. We're supposed to have 'open justice' in the U.K. & for the most part, few of us would have had the time or inclination to attend a court case, be that in a employment tribunal, civil case or a criminal case etc. There's something quite unique about being able to have the opportunity to follow this as it goes through each witness, the evidence & watching skilful QCs at work, and on their best form. Or not.

What I don't enjoy is the human cost - the cost on AB as well as others. It's quite a brutal process to endure, no matter what side. My job includes having to give evidence and so far in the 5/6 yrs I've done my current job, I've not yet been called (cases resolved without my statement needing to be justified by my appearance to be cross examined). So this is also personal to me as it's a great way to learn what happens for the day my statement suddenly becomes relevant (I've one case hanging over me for 18 mths that might just be my undoing Grin).

I think we've all been 'brought up' on legal dramas to make a case like this, with a a subject we all know/understand & parties we know & also 'get', compelling enough without all the added 'benefits' of witnessing professionalism & skill at work, and being able to follow the evidence trail to see & understand what's strong/weak etc. in terms of AB's case.

I listened into the FPFW NRA/Scottish Census case appeal and it was no where near as compelling, or interesting. It was dry & uninteresting to most I'd think. It was still worth listening to, not least because FPFW's counsel was just woeful & made a pretty poor argument for his case. It makes me appreciate Ben C QC's skills all the more. And to be fair to FPFW's counsel, he likely had very little time to get his head around the arguments (it definitely showed in his presentation).

chilling19 · 23/05/2022 09:40

Marc Willers QC

www.gardencourtchambers.co.uk/barristers/marc-willers-qc/sao

CatsOperatingInGangs · 23/05/2022 09:40

BC seems refreshed and bouncy this morning. Like a legal tigger.

chilling19 · 23/05/2022 09:40

Willers - An actual Twitter user!

LipbalmOrKnickers · 23/05/2022 09:40

Belated thanks for new thread @ickky

Ameanstreakamilewide · 23/05/2022 09:41

He is a Twitter user...which is a first!

Mmmnotsure · 23/05/2022 09:41

MW is an active Twitter user. Rare to find in the GCC wild.

Ameanstreakamilewide · 23/05/2022 09:41

He is redhead, Cats!

dworky · 23/05/2022 09:41

@FourExcellentQuestions Have sent you a PM

Clymene · 23/05/2022 09:42

Yes BC definitely seems a bit more energetic this morning.

FacebookPhotos · 23/05/2022 09:42

User237845 Thanks! I was quite sure I'd denied access to my video but needed to check.

chilling19 · 23/05/2022 09:43

We are far right again.

MW already getting defensive.

Clymene · 23/05/2022 09:44

Right so chambers members can tweet on anything they like unless a complaint is made?

ickky · 23/05/2022 09:45

BC establishing with MW that there was no rule about Tweeting potentially controversial issues. MW had retweeted Louise Hooper Tweet.

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