Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 9

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Allison Bailey - claimant

Witnesses for the claimant:

Nic Williams - Fair Play for Women
A Woman's Place
FiLiA
Kate Harris - LGB Alliance

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC
Kirrin Medcalfe - head of trans inclusion Stonewall
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC and in charge of writing report on AB/complaints
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC

Current Witness - Charlie Tennant - Clerk at GCC

To come

Luke Harvey - Clerk at GCC
Louise Hooper - Clerk at GCC
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge

Honestly, I feel like I'm learning so much. I feel my contribution was worth it for the learning opportunity and entertainment value alone!

If they can sort the tech out so it's less of a burden on the judge and less intrusive I do think this style of open access to viewing cases would be good. Perhaps we'd be more willing (as a society) to challenge cuts in legal aid etc if we had a better understanding of how the justice system works.

Placemarking.

Article from 2019 re the 2017 meeting held at GCC and AB:

uncommongroundmedia.com/garden-court-chambers-and-the-public-shaming-of-allison-bailey/

"My companion that evening, Julia Long, kept her composure long enough to ask a question about the changing meaning and definition of ‘gender identity’, and Michelle Brewer answered with an assertion that ‘what gender means to the individual’ is the best way forward for trans people to explain themselves, so this is the definition needed in legislation."

Michelle Brewer is now a JUDGE!!

General question about open access court proceedings. Obvs I've followed Maya and Allison's case but are other cases done like this as well. Are they listed anywhere if so? I'm becoming addicted.

I hope Mr Judge is whipping her up wholesome and hearty lunches in the kitchen. And keeping the cat in gourmet pouches to try to keep her quiet.

I wish he'd unplug the phone though. His mates keep interrupting proceedings calling to chat about last night's playoff match result.

Oh no. Have I yet again assumed heterosexuality? She's probably part of a mixed sex polycule with 27 cats and a support alpaca.

yes this seems right to me - I couldnt unpick it enough to express things as eloquently as you did - thanks.

Clearly I could never be a barrister or a judge

Yes, exactly. For the first time it sounded as if he was using someone else's words, not his own. I agree that he comes across as a very honest and direct sort of person and there was obvious discomfort there about something.

www.courtserve.net/

This is where I found Allison's hearing listed. You need to have an account, but it is free.

I think it is less common now. The Wagathia Christie trial was held in physical court cocurrent to this.

Thanks. I obviously wasn't listening particularly hard at that point and only really caught what the EJ said.

Whatever you do, don't have a sexual fantasy about her. It's .... something, something ... detrimental.

@ickky Sorry to cause confusion with the witness list. Nic Williams and Dr Nicola Williams are the same person so she's in twice. The Dr one is her formal name.

Michelle Brewer answered with an assertion that ‘what gender means to the individual’ is the best way forward for trans people to explain themselves, so this is the definition needed in legislation."

Great. I've come to the painful realisation recently that my inner gender identity is 'filthy rich'.

I've often wondered why I've found it so hard to do menial tasks like housework and why I seemingly find it so hard to keep my house tidy when others do it with no problem. Now I realise it's that my inner gender identity is at odds with the material reality of my wealth. Really I should have a staff of at least 4.

I'm so keen to have MB as judge when I'm up in court explaining to the mortgage company how they should write off my debt because it's self ID and acceptance without exception.

Of course MY gender identity doesn't threaten anyone else's safety, just the profits of already rich companies. So it should be a no brainer really to just give me everything I am totally - through my gender identity - entitled to. Otherwise it's basically oppression.

I think it is very very very rare indeed in England and most court hearings are in person (and you can turn up to them in person). The Supreme Court (which only hears appeals) is online and live always however if that is of interest to people www.supremecourt.uk/live/court-01.html

On the issue that seems to be being covered at present (I am not watching as am working but am following this thread) it will be quite hard to show a deliberate reduction in work. it is such a weird process really. For example I instruct counsel (in commercial law matters) sometimes and I might sometimes ask for a particular junior or QC or I might ask the clerks to suggest someone. Some barristers will socialise with solicitors to help get themselves work. It is not a simple process that the clerk will be allocating everyone the exact same amount of work but I have certainly not read AB's documents and compared her to other barristers. How busy you are can also depend on your practice area and work in that area can go up and down like a yo yo.

I think it’s possible there’s also a disconnect between what barristers think clerks do/should be doing and what they actually do. CT seemed to be defending as usual the very practices all the barristers seem to think represent poor or biased clerking.

No worries, thank you for clarifying. It will appear in all it's correct glory on the next thread, which at this rate will be very soon. 😁

Still catching up in huge chunks because I can't be online much this week. These threads are so much easier to follow as a narrative than the Tribunal Tweets, so massive thanks to everyone.

In the film, can we have a framing story of MNers watching online, with the fashionable device of typed comments appearing on-screen? I'd like there to be a sorrynotsorryyeah character who storms in every now and again, sighing and stamping over to open the fridge in the background and complaining that his mum hasn't bought cheesestrings and why can't she get ANYTHING RIGHT? Played by Harry Enfield as Kevin the Teenager.

Thanks for the new thread @ickky

Racing to keep up all the time!

Thanks again, @ickky . I think I also erroneously gave Kirrin Medcalf an extra e on their name which perhaps you could correct at hte next thread?

Placemarking

Thank you for the new thread. Gosh, we are whipping through 1000 post threads at quite the galop!

Yes I saw that too. No idea of context.

I think it is less common now. The Wagathia Christie trial was held in physical court cocurrent to this.

Can you even imagine the chaos that judge would be dealing with if it was online like this one?

Thank you all for the insightful comments. (aka <placemarking myself>)

Ok we are back