Kellie Jay Keen and Tucker Carlson of Fox News

[concernedfriend500]

I used to admire Kellie Jay Keen for her staunch defence of women's rights and her refusal to bow down to the bullies. But I'm so over her now. Last night I watched one of her YouTube videos and she praised Tucker Carlson to the skies, saying what what a good guy he is. For those of you who don't know, Carlson is a right wing troll who has been accused of being a white supremacist. He presents an insanely popular talk show on US Fox News, on which KJL has appeared on several times. Carlson also pushes the "great replacement" theory and no-one with progressive principles should have anything to do with him, let alone normalise his racism. My guess is that KJK has swallowed the "my enemy's enemy is my friend" line and is going down a dangerous rabbit hole. But I'm out.

When you have people being so incredibly disingenuous about the supoosedly "bad" platforms, it quickly becomes clear that there is nothing that anyone can do to be right.

By their very nature any platform that will highlight all of this is one that will be seen as "bad" by certain types of progressives. They subscribe to a worldview where critisizing any element of the progressive viewpoint, even just disputing their data, makes one a Nazi. Very often they haven't even really much idea about the background of the controversy.

You aren't going to be able to convince people like that.

There’s nothing wrong at all with not supporting KJK. It’s the demand that no one else does, lest we all get led astray down a dark right wing path because we’re all sooo weak minded that is the problem. Don’t like her? Fine. But don’t tell those that do that we are part of a problem. And don’t purity spiral us by pretending her talking to right wing people is damaging. What you actually mean is you’re not open minded enough to accept the fact you agree with right wing people on simple matters of biology.

Simple question: Tucker Carlson and KJK think the definition of woman is adult human female. Do you agree with them?

No, not at all. It’s a simple indication that you can still agree with people on some issues even if you disagree on others. That watching Fox News doesn’t mean you support storming the Capitol. That appearing on it doesn’t mean anything other than you’re there to discuss the issue you’re there for. That supporting someone who appeared on Fox News (ages ago now 🙄) on one issue, means you support anything else that person does.

Is it naivety that thinks anyone who does will end up firebombing abortion clinics, or sanctimony?

I can't get with feminist ideology a la MN as theyd align with the devil homself as long as he agreed that women are women. So Im unsurprised they deem TC as cool, simply because he gives one of their champion women a platform.

& of course, he is an example of White male privilege being able to say almost what it wants - and they like that too. You won't get much criticism of him in here

10 Black people lost their lives via twisted White supremacy. TC absolutely DOES push the Great Replacement Theory - theres no way that they dont know this. Hes not exactly quiet about it. FOX News are abhorrent anyway.

BWAW needs to be a slogan too because despite several of them having their heads blown off by racist scum, the fact that TC constantly vocalised his support of a theory that radicalises young men and endangers non-White prople, appears not to matter. Mostly I guess because theyre not the 'right type' of murdered in cold blood women are they?

“Align”

Always that word, “align”. Meaning, from posters who love to drop in, you agree on one thing, ergo you agree on everything 🙄.

It’s so childish, really, I don’t know how people function as adults in the real world.

Those who are politically very conservative (especially in the cultural and social sense) need a word for the female sex as they largely wish to see that sex constrained to the home and subjugated to male leadership. That's what I have gathered from reading and watching various people in that camp, including Tucker Carlson.

Those who are gender critical and feminists (not necessarily identical groups) need a word for the female sex partly to fight those attempts to constrain women's lives and to have them subjugated to male leadership inside families.

So the two groups (anti-feminist conservatives such as Tucker Carlson and gender critical feminists) have opposite reasons for defining 'women' as 'adult human females'. Both sides, however, need the word.

Someone used the example of the Ku Klux Klan and the NAACP, to make this clearer. Both of those organisations also need to have a name which could be applied to Black people in the US, but their reasons are diametrically opposed.

It would be much better if more left-wing publications would accept submissions from gender critical writers. Mostly they do not, however. And there we are.

Given that we have the spectacle of self-appointed left-wing authorities regularly writing in the Daily Mail and Spectator whilst droning on about that no-one else should do similar, or getting drunk and calling PP a "thick feck" (on-line bullying to most of us), I really cannot get worked up about a woman choosing to disseminate her message via large platforms offered to her.

You do know Kiki says very nasty things about women who do not agree with her. She has dished it out.

Exactly, what's Julie Bindel done for women and girls lately?

She's more interested in getting on the piss with JKR at the River Cafe than expanding our message outside of her own bubble.

Who is kiki?

Who benefits from feeding division within feminists?

Yes. Women have minds of their own and will talk to who they wish. These issues are across all political alignments despite the constant push to define it as a far right agenda.

I am also not really sure people understand that there are people who may agree with many ‘leftist’ ideals but are not left wing. It is like there is this ridiculous notion of there only being left and right. There are other options.

Feminism isn't a left wing purity test thankfully. It's for all women, including those who are right wing and/or you don't like. I guarantee there are no TRA threads agonising over eg Owen Jones' latest alliances and he's just a rentagob taking it upon himself to speak for transpeople rather than being trans himself. Posie Parker is a woman. She reaches a wide audience, if you don't want that it's up you but she has the right and ability to do so.

(I understand part of it is the right taking gleeful advantage of the insane self-destruction of the left, but so what? It's not our duty to keep quiet and take the abuse from left wing men for the cause)

the vast vast majority of feminists don’t support johnson on MN

time and time again they said how much they hated the idea of voting tory and how much they loathed him

lots of people on this board have also said they don’t support/like KJK but think she has a right to speak and get information out

its tiresome saying that MN is this or that….its a mixture of things

Ahhhh gotcha

so if someone says something nasty and lower myself to their level

awesome

though to be fair it describes most of the (earlier) brexit threads

I should lower myself…

🤨 its early…thats my only excuse and I’m sticking with it

I can't get with feminist ideology a la MN as theyd align with the devil homself as long as he agreed that women are women

rubbish

lets see if i can turn this around

if you misrepresent the beliefs and posts of women on mumsnet on purpose, then i think you are probably misrepresenting all sorts of things…

Maybe your ire should be with the journalists and shows that won't have KJK on, rather than KJK taking whatever opportunities are open to her to get the message out there.

Sometimes when I come on this board I feel like I'm a teenager again, being told to stay away from certain friends because they're the Wrong Crowd and it might Give People Ideas about me.

Does this chaperoning ever end?

I can't get with feminist ideology a la MN as theyd align with the devil homself

For TRAs, you ‘align’ with someone if you agree with them.

This makes me think that TRAs are either very young or don’t have jobs or both.

I have a professional job that required a zillion years of study/training. I have worked closely and become friends with people whose political beliefs are vastly different from my own. It is possible to respect people’s work, value their opinion and simultaneously disagree with their views on social issues.

people are nuanced - this demand for 100% ideological purity from the progressive left is misguided and a sign of immaturity

Middle of the night, drops in to tell us we are feminising wrong and shouldn't post on MN? Not sure how much more transparent you could be!

Is this supposed to be a parody post?
“Everyone who I disagree with is a racist, and what’s worse, they won’t even admit it!”