Kellie Jay Keen and Tucker Carlson of Fox News

[concernedfriend500]

I used to admire Kellie Jay Keen for her staunch defence of women's rights and her refusal to bow down to the bullies. But I'm so over her now. Last night I watched one of her YouTube videos and she praised Tucker Carlson to the skies, saying what what a good guy he is. For those of you who don't know, Carlson is a right wing troll who has been accused of being a white supremacist. He presents an insanely popular talk show on US Fox News, on which KJL has appeared on several times. Carlson also pushes the "great replacement" theory and no-one with progressive principles should have anything to do with him, let alone normalise his racism. My guess is that KJK has swallowed the "my enemy's enemy is my friend" line and is going down a dangerous rabbit hole. But I'm out.

ALL the barristers involved in Allison's tribunal are the ultimate professionals,

I have a lot of catching up to do there but really? Certain barristers seemed to have struggled to number the bundle, fail to mention adjustments their witnesses would need, fail to recognise the importance of having a clear view of their face when questioning a witness, saying 'here we go' in response to mentions of death threats, inturrupt constantly...

Talking about Carlson is a complete distraction.

Whatever he thinks is irrelevant to the point that you feel KJK is obligated to speak on a particular script and only in approved quarters.

Beyond being plain rude, I'd like to know who you think is being harmed by this abundance of talking, is it KJK in particular or the audience who you feel is now tainted and corrupted?

I am intrigued by exactly what progressive cause those thinking KJK speaking to millions, on an insanely popular TV show with a large democratic following, are pursuing when they say she is damaging their cause?

This is my personal opinion not 100% fact. I am not saying no one is allowed to talk to him, listen to him, agree with him etc. So please don’t try and make out that is what I am saying.

I think combining efforts with a man who is well known for spouting nonsense about anything everything, including women’s rights, makes it very easy for people to file the very real issues being presented by genuine feminists, away with nonsense like GRT, a belief that there is no evidence that George Flloyd was killed by a cop, and anti bad conspiracies. I believe it devalues the argument and the issues.

Especially at a sensitive time as currently, after the extremist attack where the shooters “manifesto” specifically mentioned GRT, there is of course scrutiny over popular figureheads who have publically promoted it.

As Greenwald said on the previous page, "There is no racial hierarchy in Carlson's view of American citizenship and to claim that there is is nothing short of a defamatory lie", and I trust him more than I trust you.

Rather than look at the evidence of Carlson's racism you instead look to former journalist Greenwald to tell you what to think.

How feeble.

GRT?

Ignoring and refusing to engage with people you think have odious views is exactly how we got into this mess.

I doubt KJK agrees with Tucker Carlson or his stereotypical audience on a huge mass of issues. Perhaps the man himself is guilty of stealing candy from babies and stamping on puppies. Point is, we have to share a planet with him and his audience and so working together on something they do agree with is just plain... well.... adult behaviour ?

Should we examine your life and political points before listening to a single word you have to say ? Should we refuse to debate you at all until a comprehensive review has been done of you by the purest of us.

Great replacement theory.

also anti bad conspiracy was meant to be anti vax. Not sure what the anti bad conspiracy could be

This is what I found with a quick google search.

Pretty harsh, but he reminds me of Michael Moore or Bernie Sanders 25 years ago, but they'd be ranting about corporations replacing American workers with foreigners, rather than government replacing American voters with foreigners. Were Moore and Sanders "racist"?

The fact that all discussion of immigration is now accused of being "racist" and in bad faith is part of the reason things like Trump or Brexit are happening. Maybe if you really care about these things, some deeper discussion than rants about '"Great Replacement Theory" Theory' might be helpful.

The "left" are increasingly in a isolated bubble where they're not taking issues (or voters, or facts) seriously, and people can see that.

Especially at a sensitive time as currently, after the extremist attack where the shooters...

Just looked up mass shootings in USA - 37 so far in May and May isn't unusual. 😨

That's very sad. How are you coping with this?

Once you have finished crying, can you give us a list of who do approve she can speak to, and I'll let the coven know.

Thanks in advance.

The actual statement was:

Yes, BC is a skilled lawyer, as are all the lawyers in this case. He’s not better or worse than the others, he just happens to represent the person you like.

Yeah sorry user1471504747

But you are doing double speak.
It's all 'Oh but you can listen to whoever you want, I support free speech'

Followed quickly by:

HE'S A RACIST, LOOK IT UP!!! thereby insinuating that you are either (a) complicit by proxy of watching listening (b) endorsing all his views in some way C) stupid and unable to decide what is racist for yourself.

I personally have no problem with the clips in question. Do certain states in America, particularly purple ones flip democrat if they have a higher proportion of immigrants? I don't know, I certainly don't see it as unlikely though. I don't know enough about American politics or social demographics indepth however. I know Texans are worried that the influx of migrants from California might make the state more left leaning. This is how countries and states change. It was ever thus.

As regards replacement of white conservative leaning men....I must say one of the things that shocked me about FWR in particular was the apparent strong approbation of white men. I do see (particularly online) both sides of the coin. Generally there appears to be a feeling (and it goes across cultural demograhics) that men are under attack, disrespected, unseen, unheard, not allowed to express opinions and there is extra resentment by WM (wrongly or rightly) that they are not catered to in society. Now on a personal level I don't see that (but then I'm not white) ...but it's there.

What I think actually happens is there are people like myself, who accept that people hold certain views and it's just a fact and the only way you'll reach compromise is to engage

And another group who find it hard to accept that certain views exist, and think shouting at others is the way to stop others' holding those views and try to get the views out of existence through head on collision or something.

Fab thread and great user name OP I can just see you in your pink twin set and pearls (a la Dolores Umbridge) wagging your finger at all us bad women doing womanthink wrong.

Thanks for enabling some great posts

OP it would help if you posted the YouTube video you're referring to

The only one i could find of TC and KJK was broadcast over a month ago. Before the vast majority of people outside the USA had even heard of this 'great replacement theory' thing, and probably still haven't got a clue what its about now

Why is everyone else expected to know the ins and outs of whats happening in the USA every day of the week? Was KJK expected to have spent days trawling through everything TC had ever said before being on his show, aired on a major USA news network

😄😄

Some people are concerned that left wing women will be brainwashed or tainted by speaking with right wing men in public. Is this a stain on the honour of these women or are they incapable of critical thinking that they will mindlessly absorb all the beliefs of right wing men?

What about the right wing men and their listeners/viewers? Are they equally in danger of being persuaded by the left wing women they converse with?

Surely most of our current problems come from a lack of dialogue across the political spectrum, from “bubbles” of opinion?

Who wins when certain groups demonise each other and no longer listen to each other or see each other’s humanity?

I applaud everyone who is engaging in good faith discussions on this and any other topic. Who knows maybe we’ll find ways of understanding each other and resolve all manner of problems.

Personally I have no desire to emulate the TRE’s who told their followers “don’t read what JK Rowling wrote you’ll find it far too triggering”, and all manner of other nonsense. A wide variety of sources helps us come to better thought out conclusions.

Maybe KJK isn't using TC maybe she does genuinely like him.

So really this is about some people who agree on one topic have differing views on Tucker Carlson!! Shock. Stop the clocks. People disagree.

You are quite within your rights to not watch him and to dislike him, it's the suggestion that 'we' should all agree to this which is galling and deeply flawed.

And GRT has been touted by the democrats for decades, it's now republicans pointing it out leading to the zealous cries of Racism!!!!

Within a week GRT has become the new ''proof' cited that people are racist, if you can't see the manipulation in this you are blind.

The 500 Fembot model isn't any more advanced than previous versions, imvfho.

I'd like to think concernedfriend500 actually learned something from this thread: that people can agree with someone on one point but disagree wih them on another. That humans are not assigned to a political body and forced to parrot its mantras on every point. That people can think and look at evidence and make up their own minds.

That would be a world-changing view for someone who has embraced a currently fashionable dogma. But so liberating.

TC may be inclined to conspiracy theories and some odd ideas generally, but I don't think he's a white supremacist.

Andrew Sullivan wrote about this idea that the GRT is a total fantasy, cut by the right from whole cloth.

It's a falcification. In it's non-conspiracy form it's simply accepting the things Denocrats and liberals have been saying for years and taking them at face value: that soon white people will be a minority, that this is a good thing and will make America a better place, that as more immigrants come to the US they become Democrats and this will mean the end of the Repiblican party which is composed of old white men.

That's all stuff that the commentators on the left and people like Joe Biden say straight out, so why it suddenly becomes a fantasy when it's seen as negative by someone on the right I don't know.

The crazy conspiracy element are the people who say there has been some secret cabal of Jews and Catholics etc who have been working at this for decades.

But people and publications like the Guardian promote their worldview better by conflating the two groups.

andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/the-sinister-symmetry-of-crt-and?s=r

The problem with using platforms like this is that people absolutely do judge by the company you keep. It’s great that posters on here can listen to all sorts of commentators and make their minds up on individual arguments, but the general public is more tribal and less into the detail. That might be frustrating, but it doesn’t make it any less true.

We know that the GC POV is inaccurately portrayed as bigoted, hateful and not truly about women’s rights at all, and we know the vast majority of people hear that message and aren’t sufficiently interested to dig deeper - they hear someone they trust say it and they believe it. Appearing on Fox plays into the hands of commentators like Owen Jones who are pushing the narrative that GC is nothing more than a hatred of trans people.

So I’m very sceptical that GC campaigners speaking on Fox and the like is spreading the message to anyone useful. I think it just reinforces the view that GC sits squarely in the basket of intolerant, extreme right-wing views.

but the general public is more tribal and less into the detail

I have found the opposite. Very left wing people who associate left-wing beliefs with morality are, but most of those seem to exist in on line spaces and/or are very young.

Most sensible adults couldn’t care less what Owen Jones think.

So I’m very sceptical that GC campaigners speaking on Fox and the like is spreading the message to anyone useful

It’s getting it out to people who aren’t left-wing, who are the groups who will ultimately effect change.

Gender ideology has come from the left-wing, it is propagated by it. They won’t be won over or persuaded, it’s their creation.

Change will come from women and this needs to incorporate women across the political spectrum. It won’t come from beardy woke-bros..

Why is it always KJK these threads are about? Why is it never about other women critical of trans ideology appearing on anything, left or right wing, anywhere else? It’s because no one ever notices. Outside of threads here it’s hard to gain traction and attention.

I love the way KJK winds people up by the sheer act speaking, never mind to the “wrong” people. There are always threads about her, started by people with no posting history, who have “concerns”. It’s hilarious. I can imagine our group of lovely Monitors, in their own little chat group, deciding who’s turn it is to continue the Use Posie Parker as a Wedge strategy. It’s so transparent.