I was beaten to third place in a running race by a trans woman

[Athleticpotential]

It's a very low key local running race, neither of us are usually contenders, but a combination of circumstances meant the field was such that we finished 3rd and 4th.

The prize is a bottle of cheap wine, it's not about that.

I know her to chat to at races and I like her. It's not common knowledge that she's trans, she enters races as a woman. She is very masculine to look at, but TBH, until recently I thought she was an unfortunate woman, I had no idea.

So in the scheme of things it doesn't matter, but it does....?

Should I "do" anything? What?

[Olivestone]

@Softleftpowerstance

What do the EEA rules say? This may be allowed.

If it’s not then I would bring it to the organiser’s attention.

I absolutely would require trans women to compete as men at elite sports, or even from county championship level. But truly grassroots over a bottle of wine? Nah, I’m not kicking up a fuss over that. Focus on beating the two women ahead of you.

@Softleftpowerstance but what about grassroot boxing matches?

[DameHelena]

@puffyisgood

in general I suppose I do tend to think that the trans exclusionary argument is weaker in the case of very low level recreational sport, where no livelihoods, college scholarships, serious accolades, etc are at stake. it does at first glance seem plausible that the needle of the fairness-inclusiveness swingometer might nudge a couple of degrees in the latter direction at this kind of level.

on the other hand, at this kind of level there's no scope whatsoever for the kind of T levels testing which most of the trans lobby appear to accept as a necessary part of fair competition involving trans women.

at the end of the day what matters is the feelings of the female participants of the race. any of them would be well within their rights to complain.

It's not a 'trans exclusionary' argument, it's the argument for segregating sports fairly, which means by biological sex in recognition of biological differences.
Language matters.

[Artichokeleaves]

A 'younger woman' is not the same thing as a biological male. Which as a class are banned from running with biological females for obvious reasons. This particular male has a special exemption under which a group agreement of an illusion of their being female has been imposed.

It is fundamentally unfair and sexist on every single front.

[Athleticpotential]

My own view is that in races such as this, you could have easily been beaten by a younger woman. Would this have made you feel differently?

But she can and did beat several young women, just starting out in the sport.

To be clear, this isn't about my result in this one race, albeit that's what brought it to my attention, it's the way it affects recreational sport altogether.

[NecessaryScene]

To not make a fuss about this would be as wrong as not making a fuss if someone decided to get a prize for doing it on a bicycle, or if a 25-year-old decided to get a prize for an under-14s race, or if someone decided they were going to do one lap less than everyone else.

This person cheating is bad, but it's just an individual being self-serving, because they know they can get away with it.

Others letting them get away with it is far worse, because of what it signals to everyone else about the acceptability of cheating, and how people will keep quiet rather than stand up against things that are wrong.

When people are quiet about people doing bad things, they are "being kind" to bad people, at the expense of the good people who are not cheating. Why should you want to favour bad people?

(The pragmatic reason, of course, is that bad people are more likely to take it out on you if you don't favour them, but that's no way to run a society).

[PrelateChuckles]

The most neutral thing I can think if is to write to the EAA and say exactly what you've said here - that you were beaten into 4th place by a transwoman and you would like to understand what their rules are. That way you show the EAA that people notice and it matters, without giving this particular person a hard time.

Yes, I think this would be a good route to take. (If you are sure that they are actually male)

[Getupoffthesofa]

Enter the kids race next time dressed in a romper suit

[Getupoffthesofa]

@PrelateChuckles

The most neutral thing I can think if is to write to the EAA and say exactly what you've said here - that you were beaten into 4th place by a transwoman and you would like to understand what their rules are. That way you show the EAA that people notice and it matters, without giving this particular person a hard time.

Yes, I think this would be a good route to take. (If you are sure that they are actually male)

I also agree with this

[Riverlee]

I think also that you shouldn’t make it personal but to use this race as an example. The trans runner hasn’t done anything wrong if the current rules permit it. However, emphasise how unfair it is etc , and that the rules should be tightened. Alternatively, if it is a mixed race, then don’t have male/female prizes etc.

[puffyisgood]

another thing to say here is that this was a mixed event, in non-contact etc sport, with presumably no changing facilities etc. so this isn't a question of forcing a TW to get out of her comfort zone in terms of e.g. being knocked around by men who haven't undergone hormone suppressant treatment etc. it's just a question of which category the TW should have her results chalked up in. v graceless of her to insist on it being the female category.

[WalrusSubmarine]

@ArnoldBee

How come I don't hear about trans men competing?

Yep.

I’d bet a million bucks that if Paul(a) Radcliffe self identified into the men’s fun run there would be a line of men complaining ! Socialisation is hobbling us here.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

It's like you entering a race with a bunch of primary school kids because you " feel" that you are your inner child. And then celebrating when you wipe the floor with them.

Yes it is, and everyone knows this, but there's very little that you can do in these times and it will be said that it's "just a bit of fun" so don't be mean.

[Artichokeleaves]

@Riverlee

I think also that you shouldn’t make it personal but to use this race as an example. The trans runner hasn’t done anything wrong if the current rules permit it. However, emphasise how unfair it is etc , and that the rules should be tightened. Alternatively, if it is a mixed race, then don’t have male/female prizes etc.

I don't agree it is a neutral and harmless act for a male person to do it merely because it is not prevented. The female who came third in the female only race has had to see the recognition of third place given to a male under a compelled pretense of them being something other than they are in reality. This is not a neutral thing to do to female people, it is exerting personal choice and freedoms and wanted experiences at female expense and it is an act of male privilege, both to do it and to have the power to create the chilling effect on females being able to call it out for what it is and refuse to put up with it.

It is perfectly simple: TW results could easily be counted separately from female ones as a third category, or a mixed sex category can be created but lets face it will just be in effect a second male group in terms of success.

[DifficultBloodyWoman]

Congratulations! You should have placed. It is unfair and unsporting.

I think you should complain. If you do, you will probably be the first of many.

[Artichokeleaves]

@Ereshkigalangcleg

It's like you entering a race with a bunch of primary school kids because you " feel" that you are your inner child. And then celebrating when you wipe the floor with them.

Yes it is, and everyone knows this, but there's very little that you can do in these times and it will be said that it's "just a bit of fun" so don't be mean.

And then saying that anyone who says look, this is obviously and blatantly unfair, is 'trans-age exclusionary'.

[LowlandLucky]

Yes it matters

[SmallThingsEverywhere]

@Athleticpotential

37/92

Says it all really. Mediocre males knowing that if they enter the womens races they stand a much better chance of winning.

[PutinIsAWarCriminal]

If you don't get anywhere with complaining, then you could ask some of the top male competitors to sabotage the race and enter under women's names. They don't need to take the piss and wear wigs and lipstick, just turn up as they are, obviously male, and prove the point about how bonkers the whole males in women's race thing really is. Have a whip around amongst yourselves and give the real prize to the actual female who wins.

[LampLighter414]

Accept your defeat graciously

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

Mediocre males knowing that if they enter the womens races they stand a much better chance of winning.

Of course they do. It isn't very sporting, is it?

[MarshaBradyo]

37th to 3rd

it helps the trans woman

[CloudPine]

@WalrusSubmarine

Yep.

I’d bet a million bucks that if Paul(a) Radcliffe self identified into the men’s fun run there would be a line of men complaining ! Socialisation is hobbling us here.

They wouldn’t complain. They’d laugh at the pointless of Radcliffe trying to compete with very much faster men.

[tabbycatstripy]

I wouldn’t run in the context of blatant, permissive cheating. That’s the bottom line.

[theemperorhasnoclothes]

@Athleticpotential

My own view is that in races such as this, you could have easily been beaten by a younger woman. Would this have made you feel differently?

But she can and did beat several young women, just starting out in the sport.

To be clear, this isn't about my result in this one race, albeit that's what brought it to my attention, it's the way it affects recreational sport altogether.

I agree. I desperately could do with a women's only exercise group.

I used to cycle solo but I haven't kept it up. I spent some time I don't have researching women's cycling groups but they all seem to be mixed sex (by stealth).

I am hugely discouraged by stories like these and it almost puts me off exercising altogether. I really need other women to help motivate and encourage me. I did a post natal exercise class and it was fantastic the support we all had from other women - without it I know I wouldn't have exercised at all during that period of my life.

I don't understand why women aren't allowed to have anything for themselves any more, and why we're not allowed to recognise our biological differences from men - which matter, a lot.

[DameHelena]

@LampLighter414

Accept your defeat graciously

Could you elaborate on your position?