I was beaten to third place in a running race by a trans woman

[Athleticpotential]

It's a very low key local running race, neither of us are usually contenders, but a combination of circumstances meant the field was such that we finished 3rd and 4th.

The prize is a bottle of cheap wine, it's not about that.

I know her to chat to at races and I like her. It's not common knowledge that she's trans, she enters races as a woman. She is very masculine to look at, but TBH, until recently I thought she was an unfortunate woman, I had no idea.

So in the scheme of things it doesn't matter, but it does....?

Should I "do" anything? What?

[Artichokeleaves]

@LampLighter414

Accept your defeat graciously

Females, know your place and graciously enable male privilege without saying or doing anything that might distress a male person enjoying said privilege.

No, not living in that world.

[viques]

Obviously too late for this year, can the organisers include a gender neutral category for next year because it is clear that this tw isn’t going to choose to run as a man?

Though of course there would be no way of ensuring that the tw ran in that category, or challenging them if they chose not to , which of course is the real elephant in the room, there is almost nothing women can do to protect our rights and our spaces however insignificant they might seem to be, without being shouted down, called terfs, bigots,spiteful,petty, dinosaurs, witches etc etc etc. The big battles are hugely important, but the small skirmishes are also worth fighting.

[Wilkolampshade]

@LampLighter414

Accept your defeat graciously

Fuck that shit.

[theemperorhasnoclothes]

Do we think any biological women would run in the gender neutral section? Not many I'm betting

[TeaBug]

They wouldn’t complain. They’d laugh at the pointless of Radcliffe trying to compete with very much faster men

In a fun run!?

[Beowulfa]

We tell children (gently but firmly) from a young age that it's not nice to cheat at board games, or kiddy sports. Why are the rules different for adult transwomen?

[DomesticatedZombie]

@Athleticpotential

She was so very gracious and supportive as she overtook me. At that point she won't have realised she was going into 3rd place (always tricky for women to know in amazed race). It is genuinely a fun run, but people still like to know where they came.

People can afford to be gracious when competing with several massive advantages.

[Peregrina]

What if you were beaten by a younger woman? That's one reason why they have age categories - veterans, over 60s, whatever.

A friend and I noticed when watching a marathon that tall women with small boobs did better - but that's just how it is.

[TeaBug]

They wouldn’t complain. They’d laugh at the pointless of Radcliffe trying to compete with very much faster men

To clarify. The men wouldn't be faster than Paula Radcliffe. Felt I needed to spell it out.

[frogleap]

It's really shit, I would write to the organisers (sadly probably anonymously so wasn't targeted) and explain your concerns on the impact of female participation in sport.

[Oblomov22]

This is so wrong. Yes it does still matter that it's grass roots, a local fun run, rather than elite sports.

[MarshaBradyo]

The mixed race shows the obvious advantage clearly

it’s a boost of 34 places in this instance

[PutinIsAWarCriminal]

I don't understand your point @Peregrina what does age, long legs and small boobs have to do with it?

[Syeknom]

I've lost a place to Lauren Jeska en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Jeska
And I am still angry about it. In fell running everyone sets off at the same time, wears similar outfits and it is just the category on the timesheet that counts. All they need to do is a separate category in the results rather than shafting women.

By dismissing small events as not being important it's insultingly implying that women aren't competitive and shouldn't care about their result as long as these other people are happy.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

We tell children (gently but firmly) from a young age that it's not nice to cheat at board games, or kiddy sports. Why are the rules different for adult transwomen?

Because all the rules are different for them.

[0dette]

Op you just need to accept that the others runner’s wish to feel validated about their personal identity is way more important that your feelings. Or fairness . Or the feelings of all the other women in the race who were disadvantaged.

Remember that as women your rights are always subordinate to the rights of men. Or the kind of women who have penis.

Non penis havers don’t have the right to fairness unless penis havers allow it.

[Shopboughtmeatballs]

@Peregrina

What if you were beaten by a younger woman? That's one reason why they have age categories - veterans, over 60s, whatever.

A friend and I noticed when watching a marathon that tall women with small boobs did better - but that's just how it is.

And that would be fair enough. The thing is a trans-woman has been through male puberty which gives them higher bone density, greater muscle mass and greater lung capacity. These differences can't be reversed with a reduction in testosterone, they're still there.

[PutinIsAWarCriminal]

I don't understand your point @Peregrina what does age, long legs and small boobs have to do with it?

[Peregrina]

what does age, long legs and small boobs have to do with it?

My male friend being over 60 was much slower than the younger runners, despite being a regular runner. Age does tell. Long legs = longer stride, therefore cover the ground more quickly. Big boobs can alter your centre of gravity.

[AmaryllisNightAndDay]

This is a proper ethical dilemma. It's one I've worried about (on and off) for many years, ever since a transsexual friend of mine (post-op and living as a woman) talked to me about joining a local women's squash ladder, but I've not come up with a solid answer apart from "aarrggh!"

The issues are different for social versus competitive verus elite sports, as well as for contact sports and youth sports.

In this mainly social and non-contact situation with no changing issues I would prioritise confidentiality and not "outing" someone. If your friend told you she is a transwoman then I would respect that confidence, and if she didn't then it's just gossip. So I wouldn't say or do anything that points out the trans runner personally.

This sounds like an awkward and unexpected situation for both of you. I think the person with the biggest ethical dilemma is your friend, whether to "out" herself and perhaps say she is running as a woman but not competing as a woman, and accept the personal consequences of that, or not. I wouldn't try to force that decision on her either way. An additional "non-male" prize is a possibility and it's something you could suggest the organisers offer in future ( naming no names) but accepting that prize while not accepting a place or prize as a woman is also outing.

So my answer is still "aaargh!". Sorry.

[garlictwist]

This happened to me in a cycling event. Like yours, it was a very low key, informal, just for fun thing, so not like it affected my Olympic medal or anything. I ended up not saying or doing anything but I was a bit miffed. And it was first place for me.

[FunnyTalks]

Of course it matters OP. I get that with elite sport there is the added issue of prize money, career and it being ones entire life. But sport at the level of your race matters very much to the people that take part. If it didn't matter to the transwoman too, they wouldn't have accepted the women's prize.

There is absolutely no reason they couldn't compete with the other males. Men need to be more inclusive and welcome males of all genders into their spaces.

This should not need to be "policed" any more than social norms, rules and laws usually have to be policed.

I wouldn't take it up with the individual. I would go to the organisation that makes the rules. I blame them and the ideological lobbyists who spread false information about trans people.

[sjxoxo]

I agree this definitely does matter!!
would they allow a man to race?? No? Well they have.

i would make a non descriptive email address, and make an official complaint, anonymously. They can respond via your anonymous email address. You can explain you are doing it anonymously because you fear bullying behaviour if you did so publicly.

I would state clearly that a man ran the race and was placed 3rd. Were they aware? And what identification do they require for entry? You can remain civilised in your language and explain whilst it is a charity event, cheating has been committed and that it is discriminatory against the other runners.

good luck. Don’t say nothing.. as many here have said - it’s a slippery slope and an slow slow erosion of womens rights. X

[Artichokeleaves]

Non penis havers don’t have the right to fairness unless penis havers allow it.

Quite.

And it will be gifted on a case by case basis, to the deserving if they behave nicely enough, and each case can only be considered after first establishing that no penis haver will be discommoded in any way in the process.

[DomesticatedZombie]

If there are separate categories for men and women, then it matters.

If it doesn't matter, it should be mixed sex.