I was beaten to third place in a running race by a trans woman

[Athleticpotential]

It's a very low key local running race, neither of us are usually contenders, but a combination of circumstances meant the field was such that we finished 3rd and 4th.

The prize is a bottle of cheap wine, it's not about that.

I know her to chat to at races and I like her. It's not common knowledge that she's trans, she enters races as a woman. She is very masculine to look at, but TBH, until recently I thought she was an unfortunate woman, I had no idea.

So in the scheme of things it doesn't matter, but it does....?

Should I "do" anything? What?

[MigsandTiggs]

It does matter that males are competing in women's sport at any level whether or not prizes are involved
This.

[TopKnotch]

@DerryWitch that is so sad, but inevetible I guess.

Do Parkrun HQ have a policy on trans participants do we know?

[NotAGirl]

if it doesn't matter sometimes how do we decide when it does matter?

For fun runs and charity does it matter when there’s so many TW that women never get listed as one of the fastest runners?

How good does the prize need to be before it matters?

If we have to decide the threshold where it matters every single time it means it matters every single time

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

If there are separate categories for men and women, then it matters. If it doesn't matter, it should be mixed sex.

Where this person wouldn't come third but much lower down. I've seen TRAs and their allies argue against the whole basis for sex segregated sports, and well, Lia Thomas etc wouldn't want that.

[Steamedhams]

I think you should raise your concerns. One of the arguments by TRAs is that it doesn't affect you so why be angry. I am genuinely shocked at the number of posters who have said that they have lost out in their sport to a trans woman. Please don't stay silent, go to the organisers and the people that made the rules and explain the situation. The more people who share their stories the better. This isn't about a shitty bottle of wine, it's about our daughters having a level playing field.

[PaterPower]

@Syeknom

I've lost a place to Lauren Jeska en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Jeska
And I am still angry about it. In fell running everyone sets off at the same time, wears similar outfits and it is just the category on the timesheet that counts. All they need to do is a separate category in the results rather than shafting women.

By dismissing small events as not being important it's insultingly implying that women aren't competitive and shouldn't care about their result as long as these other people are happy.

Interesting history in that Wiki link.

Attacked three men, causing permanent damage to at least one, and is in a women’s prison - presumably counted in the crime stats as a violent female offender.

Interesting to read that Jeska is autistic and that Jeska took a gender studies degree before starting to transition. IANA Psychiatrist, but cause and effect right there, perhaps?

[TheOrigRights]

Where was this race? I'd expect a race in the UK to be governed by UKA not EAA.

I desperately want to find the rules, but am at work and really don't have time.
I am a competitive runner (club not national or anything like that!).

Can you tell me more about it (by pm if you don't want to out yourself).

And well done on doing so well.

[kerryleigh]

It does matter. They shouldn't compete as woman, as they have a clear advantage and it's not fair. The level of competition doesn't matter.

[puffyisgood]

@LampLighter414

Accept your defeat graciously

I think the expression you're looking for is that OP should 'grow a pair', right? Though my experience suggests that in practice that's harder than it sounds.

[AmaryllisNightAndDay]

what identification do they require for entry?

I wouldn't ask about identification, because what identification do you have in mind? Do you want all women to show a birth certificate to compete? And even a birth certificate would be a filter to keep numbers down but with a GRC someone who's been through male puberty could have a female birth certificate.

[JudgeJ]

@Phos

I agree it’s completely unfair that this person entered the race but unfortunately I’d be concerned that entering a complaint would just get you labelled as transphobic.

Yet another word to shut down discussion, as long as people are bullied into not speaking by these words it will continue.
The fact is that the OP came 2nd in reality. Maybe suggest that next year there are three races for three categories, M, F and T then maybe the other person will be first!

[KohlaParasaurus]

The risk of asking the organiser to jump through the hoop of offering a separate category for transgender people is that many organisers of these grassroots "fun" races would decide not to bother putting on the race at all, which would benefit none of us. Because how do you police it? And what transwoman is going to choose to race in a category that labels them as "not actually a woman", especially if they believe they are "living as a woman"?

[TopKnotch]

Oh, disappointed to read this about Parkrun. Apparently there are a selection of categories you can self identify into - so the records and placing as male/female and age categorised etc are all pointless really?

And apparently, "all women are different and being transgender is just one of many different aspects of a person." So that's all ok then.

blog.parkrun.com/uk/2020/02/12/where-i-know-im-always-welcome/

[TheOrigRights]

While it's not the same exact issue, I am relentless in my pursuit of women being recognised in my club.

Race reports will say e.g. ManA was the first home for the club.

I keep telling them that they need to say ManA was the first man and WomanA was the first woman; that their achievements are the same.

And don't even get me started on the unfairness of holding a race where you have to have achieved a certain time to qualify ie the women have to be relatively better than the men. In the end I was more angry about the men just not getting it and trying to stop me worrying my poor little head about it.

[JudgeJ]

It's for charity. I'm sure this person has had enough problems in life and enough hatred. Don't take the fun run away from them too.

Tough, why should the OP and others be bullied into accepting this nonsense because of someone else's alleged 'problems in life'? Well all have our problems, we don't cheat our way through life on the back of them however.

[lightand]

@Athleticpotential

I have supported women in elite sport the best way I can, I haven't done "nothing", but yes this is the first time it's been brought home to me that it matters in fun sport too and the first time, as someone directly involved, that I've felt that there could/should be some direct action I can take.

And yes maybe more should have been done years ago, but that surely doesn't mean we do nothing now?

No. But it is all too little, too late.
It is an established thing now.

[Fromwaleswithlurv]

Not saying you haven't got a right to be disappointed, but I guess the counter argument would be when and how do sportspeople who have transitioned join in with these events?

Do we just say male to female trans people have to have their own races and events? that's not going to work is it, there won't be enough?

Some kind of handicap/penalty when they compete with CIS women?

I genuinely don't know the answer, but ' making' trans women compete with males, or banning them from competitive sporting activity at any level seems a bit harsh ( although no more harsh then a CIS women being denied a prize/medal /place on a national or local team due to a trans woman competing)

Such a difficult situation.

[IcakethereforeIam]

Congrats on 3rd . It does matter.

I might have been petty enough to ask for my £2 back.

[Catapultaway]

@Athleticpotential

I agree completely, but what would your club/events do if a trans woman wanted to compete?. Would you even know? Like with this person, there's been speculation because of her appearance but no one officially "knows".

It doesn't matter at all that I missed out on a bottle of wine. It does matter that I missed the rare opportunity to be placed but it really matters that this is happening to women's sport.

So nobody actually knows if she is trans or not?
You say you spoke to her previously and never knew... What makes you think you know now?

[viques]

@theemperorhasnoclothes

Do we think any biological women would run in the gender neutral section? Not many I'm betting

I mean there would be three sections, women, men, gender neutral. If transmen wanted to run they would run in the gender neutral race, where sadly they would get beaten by the transwomen, but that’s another story…..

[Peregrina]

Transwomen aren't banned though - they can race as what they are which is biological, or 'cis' if you like, males. OK those who chose to take hormones to lower their testosterone which might put them at a disadvantage - that's their choice.

Male to transfemale in a trans category wouldn't work because they would all have gone through male puberty, so there would be no advantage.

It really isn't difficult.

[Loopyloopy]

@viques

I mean there would be three sections, women, men, gender neutral. If transmen wanted to run they would run in the gender neutral race, where sadly they would get beaten by the transwomen, but that’s another story…..

Two divisions. Women and open. That means that you are not forced to identify as a man to compete in the women's section. Very athletic women can even compete in the open if they wish. However, we keep a protected section for the 50% of the population who are less likely to engage in physical exercise.

[Loopyloopy]

Sorry, not forced to identify as a man to compete without competing in the women's section.

[NerrSnerr]

I don't know if it has been posted but this is the UKA transgender policy from 2016, I can't find anything more recent.

Race permits are from UKA not EAA (aren't they?) so I think it's UKA who need to be contacted with concerns.

genderarchive.org.uk/assets/pdfs/United%20Kingdom%20Athletics%20-%20Transgender%20Policy%20Guidance%20for%20Athletics%20Clubs%20and%20Competition%20Providers.pdf

[HazelBite]

DS is a runner (elite) I know what his position is on a national basis. If he were to run "as a women" he would wipe the floor with the other race participants.
Whilst I am generally sympathetic to "trans" people, in competitive sport and in many walks of life, what is "fair" needs to be looked at and decided.