I was beaten to third place in a running race by a trans woman

[Athleticpotential]

It's a very low key local running race, neither of us are usually contenders, but a combination of circumstances meant the field was such that we finished 3rd and 4th.

The prize is a bottle of cheap wine, it's not about that.

I know her to chat to at races and I like her. It's not common knowledge that she's trans, she enters races as a woman. She is very masculine to look at, but TBH, until recently I thought she was an unfortunate woman, I had no idea.

So in the scheme of things it doesn't matter, but it does....?

Should I "do" anything? What?

[Margotshypotheticaldog]

It's like you entering a race with a bunch of primary school kids because you " feel" that you are your inner child. And then celebrating when you wipe the floor with them.
Morto.

[Athleticpotential]

@Noisyprat

In this race you are the main loser as you were beaten to a place although ALL women lose out when a man races with them. It's possible that next time this person will win, is it possible the lot are testing the waters to see if anything is said before taking too prize? Let's face it this is a tactic so the trans community can claim 'look they don't win all the time'.

You could sound out the other women to see what they think.
You could approach the organisers and tell them that they need to make it clear it isn't women only
You could encourage other men to race to bring more attention to this (although I suspect most won't be interested as it doesn't affect them) or
You could just rave where they promote women only races

TBF I don't think she entered with the intention of winning a prize. Neither of us would usually get anywhere close, but a combination of competition with another local race falling on the same date and atrocious weather, meant the field was unusually small.

[Motorina]

I absolutely would require trans women to compete as men at elite sports, or even from county championship level. But truly grassroots over a bottle of wine? Nah, I’m not kicking up a fuss over that. Focus on beating the two women ahead of you.

But it’s grass roots races that feed elite sports. It’s the kids/teenagers running in those who go on to compete for their county or club. If girls are disillusioned as 12, because they know they can’t win against that girl having male puberty, then they drop out and we lose elite womens sports.

I’m a runner. I’m not very fast. I also part organise a local running club. We post weekly praising the triumphs of our runners. They are - by any objective standards - very small triumphs. Jane ran her first 10k or Kate broke an hour for the first time. But they really matter to the people involved. If one of our runners came third we’d be getting out the flags and champagne.

it sounds trivial but, if you’ve worked for that time and that finish, it’s really not.

[Athleticpotential]

She was so very gracious and supportive as she overtook me. At that point she won't have realised she was going into 3rd place (always tricky for women to know in amazed race). It is genuinely a fun run, but people still like to know where they came.

[Margotshypotheticaldog]

@Athleticpotential

37/92

Wow. Mediocre man, top speed woman.

[Artichokeleaves]

It does matter, as you're compelled to pretend that this male is a female, and that it is not madly unfair that while other males are prevented from running in female races this one has a forced blind eye turned to what they are doing. So you have to suck up the unfairness and lie about it to make it look ok.

This is called being forced to collude in your own oppression, and yes, it leaves a very bad taste in the mouth. You have been and are being taken advantage of a male person who knows that you cannot name what they are doing to you. So no, I don't agree that they are lovely I'm afraid; this is not a lovely thing to do to you or other women.

[Softleftpowerstance]

@MichelleScarn

So only 'elite' people matter? Non elite people are just 'kicking up a fuss'?

At a fun run, yes. But I’m a runner so I’m very pragmatic about the emphasis on fun.

I’m more outraged then when I was first lady at a local half marathon I didn’t even get recognition as they only gave medals for overall finishers (and I was fourth overall). That’s diminishing women.

I’d be interested to know if the trans woman is going around thinking to themselves “I came third”. I’d be surprised tbh, but maybe both they and I are deluded.

I want national and global rules that protect sex based support. My focus is the structures, not individuals.

[Athleticpotential]

@Motorina

I absolutely would require trans women to compete as men at elite sports, or even from county championship level. But truly grassroots over a bottle of wine? Nah, I’m not kicking up a fuss over that. Focus on beating the two women ahead of you.

But it’s grass roots races that feed elite sports. It’s the kids/teenagers running in those who go on to compete for their county or club. If girls are disillusioned as 12, because they know they can’t win against that girl having male puberty, then they drop out and we lose elite womens sports.

I’m a runner. I’m not very fast. I also part organise a local running club. We post weekly praising the triumphs of our runners. They are - by any objective standards - very small triumphs. Jane ran her first 10k or Kate broke an hour for the first time. But they really matter to the people involved. If one of our runners came third we’d be getting out the flags and champagne.

it sounds trivial but, if you’ve worked for that time and that finish, it’s really not.

I agree completely, but what would your club/events do if a trans woman wanted to compete?. Would you even know? Like with this person, there's been speculation because of her appearance but no one officially "knows".

It doesn't matter at all that I missed out on a bottle of wine. It does matter that I missed the rare opportunity to be placed but it really matters that this is happening to women's sport.

[Moancup]

But it’s grass roots races that feed elite sports. It’s the kids/teenagers running in those who go on to compete for their county or club. If girls are disillusioned as 12, because they know they can’t win against that girl having male puberty, then they drop out and we lose elite womens sports.

I agree with this but a church fun run is the weedy verge of grassroots sports. It may be a first or occasional race. No one should get disillusioned coming fourth. Protect the areas of grassroots sports that actually feed the pipeline.

[Morechocmorechoc]

Well unless you know her well enough to ask her testosterone levels I'm going to say you can't do anything.

It's for charity. I'm sure this person has had enough problems in life and enough hatred. Don't take the fun run away from them too.

Just before you all jump on me I'm not for trans people doing women's sport at all and I think if you're trans it's just something you shouldn't be able to do. Like if you're short you can't be an air hostess. That's just life. But takimg away fun things for people that mean nothing seems unnecessarily mean.

[Athleticpotential]

@Moancup

But it’s grass roots races that feed elite sports. It’s the kids/teenagers running in those who go on to compete for their county or club. If girls are disillusioned as 12, because they know they can’t win against that girl having male puberty, then they drop out and we lose elite womens sports.

I agree with this but a church fun run is the weedy verge of grassroots sports. It may be a first or occasional race. No one should get disillusioned coming fourth. Protect the areas of grassroots sports that actually feed the pipeline.

We're both too old to be "feeding the pipeline" but we both compete for clubs in County events. We don't win open events, I do occasionally win age group trophies. I'm not that bad! I don't know if she's won anything, she's younger than me so maybe not. The event is organised by an affiliated running club.

[MzHz]

@Athleticpotential

37/92

Wow.

[quietnightmare]

Don't minimise this. Well done on 3rd place 🥉 👏

[Wheresthebeach]

fairplayforwomen.com/ It does matter, grass roots, charity...it all matters.
Get in touch with Fair Play For Women and they should be able to give you support.

[Cailin66]

@Morechocmorechoc

Well unless you know her well enough to ask her testosterone levels I'm going to say you can't do anything.

It's for charity. I'm sure this person has had enough problems in life and enough hatred. Don't take the fun run away from them too.

Just before you all jump on me I'm not for trans people doing women's sport at all and I think if you're trans it's just something you shouldn't be able to do. Like if you're short you can't be an air hostess. That's just life. But takimg away fun things for people that mean nothing seems unnecessarily mean.

What on Earth makes you think the biological males taking testosterone?

what about the right of women to a fair chance at the charity race. It matters how yiu are placed. Otherwise what’s the point.

are we to allow unfair biological advantage because they have problems in life. Most of us have those and don’t leverage them to win a prize in a fun run. It’s cheating.

[DerryWitch]

You say she enters races as a woman. So this is not the first time. Part of the problem is that even if you don’t mind other people can see it’s not fair and that puts people off participating. An average male is going to beat most women. Also it shows how widespread this problem is - some sports bodies think it’s so rare that women can just suck it up. But it’s quite common now. Fair Play For Women are compiling info on this to talk to sports bodies about it. Can be confidential - just good to know location, that sort of thing. Can you email [email protected]? They’ll reply quickly.

[Femalewoman]

Mans body running as a woman. Of course it matters, the slippery slope of accepting that men can by saying they are now women take over women's safe spaces, prisons, toilets, refuge groups, rape centres, running races, etc etc

[DerryWitch]

@Morechocmorechoc why does the transwoman’s fun matter more than the OP’s? Or, if it’s just fun, the TW can run but in the right category. No one knows in a running event who’s entered in which sex/age categories - you all run together and they announce results and hand out prizes at the end. So the TW would not be outing them self.

[interferringma]

Yep get in touch with Fair Play for Women. This is their beat
You said she was gracious as she overtook.
What was her reaction at the finish line and did she congratulate you? I'm really interested in her reaction (and if she was embarrassed)

[TopKnotch]

It does matter.

I ponder this everytime we go to our local parkrun and the first however many runners to finish (normal at least 5-7) are clearly male, then the top 20 has maybe 1 or 2 extremely talented women who are clearly training hard and at peak fitness. The vast majority of the first finishers and certainly those who do the course in sub 25 mins are male. But who is actually stopping anyone of those taking the women's course record? I don't know what the rules are tbh. No one watching a running event can be in any doubt that male biology confers advantage though.

[Terfydactyl]

@MichelleScarn

So only 'elite' people matter? Non elite people are just 'kicking up a fuss'?

Agree, cos if it just continues there wont be any women at grassroots level.
Why bother entering if you know fine well you wont win.
Slippery slope to the end of all womens sport in less than 5 years.
Sorry OP it matters.

[DerryWitch]

@TopKnotch there is a TW who ran parkruns with a male name then with a female name and has the course record at Parke parkrun. Before covid this one was placing “first female” at a few different parkruns. Only pride is at stake but some other woman should have that course record.

[CatsAreCrackers]

I totally see your dilemma and actually really feel for you. On one hand, you don't want to look transphobic, especially as it's "only" a fun event. But on the other hand, as a fun runner myself, I'd be a bit gutted to come fourth in those circumstances, because it isn't fair and 3rd is 3rd, irrespective of anything else! And also, is all seriousness, this does need bringing up and it's a shame the trans person did not do the right and fair thing and register as their biological sex.

[DameHelena]

@Softleftpowerstance

True for mad people. But a lot of normal people will wonder why you’re kicking up a fuss over a bottle of win. There’s no prestige to coming third at a fun run.

The World Athletics rules need to be the focus. They allow sworn trans women to compete as women, as long as their testosterone levels are controlled.

The OP doesn't say anything about 'prestige' and she is not 'kicking up a fuss'
It's a principle and a slippery slope; sure, fun runs on their own don't 'matter' like the Olympics, but in a wider context they give messages to people, especially young people who may be thinking about taking their engagement in sport further.

And it's not about questioning this person about their testosterone levels or genitalia. People need to declare their sex when they enter races, not their gender. I agree Fair Play For Women should be able to advise you.

[Riverlee]

As others have said, write a letter to the organisers explaining what you have said here. Include the differing positions had they been running in the mens v woman’s race.