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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

School allowing boy to change in girls changing room secondary school

324 replies

Saffy6 · 23/04/2022 11:43

Hi my teenage daughter has told me there is a boy who identifies as a girl changing with the girls in their communal changing room. I have emailed the school who have confirmed this and stated that cases are dealt with individually but in most cases “trans students would have access to the changing room or toilet that corresponds to their gender identity. This approach is supported by the equality act 2010” None of the parents have been informed. Some of the girls are uncomfortable but do not feel they can say anything as they are afraid of being accused of transphobia.

My other daughter in year 9 has 3 girls in her class now identifying as boys (changed name and pronouns). Surely if they want to change in the boys changing rooms they will be allowed to too?

I’ve contacted safe schools alliance and I intend to challenge this policy. My question is, is this the norm? What is your schools policy on transgender kids and changing rooms and has anyone been in a similar position where you challenged this policy and what was the outcome?

OP posts:
titchy · 28/04/2022 22:10

to be clear, I don't think that mixed sex changing rooms should be allowed. I simply asked what the solution was and nobody had an answer.

But a trans girl in the girls changing room makes it mixed sex and you support that?

Several people have said the solution is to let the trans girl change elsewhere if they don't feel comfortable in the changing room of their biological sex. Their choice.

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 28/04/2022 22:10

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 28/04/2022 22:08

Stil waiting for you to quote where I said that

I literally just apologised for thinking that youd said mixed sex changing rooms were ok

now I understand that you DON’T think the transgirl should have been in the female changing rooms

No. I don't. I'm still waiting for you to show me why you thought that.

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 28/04/2022 22:11

titchy · 28/04/2022 22:10

to be clear, I don't think that mixed sex changing rooms should be allowed. I simply asked what the solution was and nobody had an answer.

But a trans girl in the girls changing room makes it mixed sex and you support that?

Several people have said the solution is to let the trans girl change elsewhere if they don't feel comfortable in the changing room of their biological sex. Their choice.

I have ever said I supported it. Ever

My question was what the solution was. One solution (ie the loo) does't make it right.

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 28/04/2022 22:12

titchy · 28/04/2022 22:06

  • erm, find me where I said she?

A trans girl is not a "they", btw.

I agree on the separate changing room.*

I mistyped. You refer to a trans girl as he. Which is odd....

Ah. So you can mistype, but I can't. Got it.

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 28/04/2022 22:13

Noisyprat · 28/04/2022 22:07

There are many reasons for single sex changing rooms, one of which is safeguarding. The majority of children and parents and in fact society, expects single sex provision of such facilities. Boys and girls both need to be comfortable and have privacy from the opposite sex when changing for sport or using the toilets etc. If a pupil is unhappy using the facilities for their sex then they can ask to use a separate facility. What is so difficult about this?

Well, because its space age.

Why do people need privacy from the opposite sex? genuine, genuine question.

Noisyprat · 28/04/2022 22:14

Gosh I can hardly keep up with this thread it's so fast moving!

It's so simple really. Single sex provision. This is the norm, no-one is being made to feel uncomfortable at all. Girls use the female and boys use the males. If a girl wants to use the males her wants do not trump the boys right to privacy, if a boy wants to use the girls they his wants do not trump the girls right to privacy. If either feels 'uncomfortable' then that's unfortunate but that's the way it works and society cannot bend and fit to every individual whim and want. Additional space will be provided, surely this person would be happy that this had been provided for them and that they can change/use the loo in private and maintain their dignity.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 28/04/2022 22:14

No. I don't. I'm still waiting for you to show me why you thought that.

nah you’re all right 😀

Absurdle · 28/04/2022 22:14

I simply asked what the solution was and nobody had an answer.

literally everyone has an answer, including you apparently. Separate space for someone who won’t change with his own sex.

and of course a girl’s rights to female-only spaces “trump” a boy’s non-existent “right” to female spaces. It’s literally impossible for a boy to have a right to be in female-only spaces because as soon as he’s admitted it’s no longer a female-only space.

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 28/04/2022 22:15

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 28/04/2022 22:14

No. I don't. I'm still waiting for you to show me why you thought that.

nah you’re all right 😀

Because I didn't.

nepeta · 28/04/2022 22:16

So are we not going to let a 12 year old (traumatised, if you believe everyone on this thread) into a room in case he is a predator to a girl? How is he any different to a 12 year old girl who is sexually attracted to woman?

You make a good point. A male becoming female is no sexual orientation, yes?
so why are we horrified about this in a girls changing room yet not absolutely fine with a girl who fancies other girls?

Largely because male sexuality (in how it is presented and also in what activities are included in it) is different from female sexuality, which is one of the reasons for separate changing rooms by sex.

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 28/04/2022 22:16

Absurdle · 28/04/2022 22:14

I simply asked what the solution was and nobody had an answer.

literally everyone has an answer, including you apparently. Separate space for someone who won’t change with his own sex.

and of course a girl’s rights to female-only spaces “trump” a boy’s non-existent “right” to female spaces. It’s literally impossible for a boy to have a right to be in female-only spaces because as soon as he’s admitted it’s no longer a female-only space.

No, I don't have an answer, thats why I question it.

Genuine question.

F-t-M.

Can she get changed in a "boys" space?

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 28/04/2022 22:16

Which is why i apologised for saying it 🤔

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 28/04/2022 22:17

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 28/04/2022 22:16

Which is why i apologised for saying it 🤔

Thanks

I dont agree with transition under 18. I don't agree with mixed spaces.

I just don't agree with a black and white position. Make sense?

Absurdle · 28/04/2022 22:18

Can she get changed in a "boys" space?

no

Noisyprat · 28/04/2022 22:18

Space age? What's that? very strange.

Single sex spaces are for safety and dignity of the individual. It is societal norm, it's expected and wanted. We're unlikely to have survey on this anytime soon because we don't need one. It is a solution for the majority and that protects the majority, especially women.

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 28/04/2022 22:20

Noisyprat · 28/04/2022 22:18

Space age? What's that? very strange.

Single sex spaces are for safety and dignity of the individual. It is societal norm, it's expected and wanted. We're unlikely to have survey on this anytime soon because we don't need one. It is a solution for the majority and that protects the majority, especially women.

Outdated.

In what way does it protect women?

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 28/04/2022 22:22

Absurdle · 28/04/2022 22:18

Can she get changed in a "boys" space?

no

So if OP's daughter was a female, on social media, the talk of the school, in the paper (suggested upthread) becase a teacher, a trusted member of staff, said she could get changed in the boys changing rooms...

still not OK?

titchy · 28/04/2022 22:23

F-t-M.

Can she get changed in a "boys" space?

Dear god you've done it again - don't you respect gender identity enough to use the pronoun 'he' for a FTM trans boy?

Absurdle · 28/04/2022 22:24

I have no idea why you think any of that would be ok. What a fucking bizarre question.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 28/04/2022 22:24

Single sex spaces are for safety and dignity of the individual

agreed

last time i was in a mixed sex loo i think the bloke was the most embarrassed, I don’t think the make members of my family would be keen on mixed sex at all

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 28/04/2022 22:25

Male!

fuck me…

titchy · 28/04/2022 22:25

I'm still not sure why you think there are no solutions when everyone has said that the trans child should be given the choice of a private changing space if they want it.

Quite easy really. 🤷‍♀️

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/04/2022 22:26

It's part of the social contract in society. Respect for others, for boundaries and the right to say no. The majority of women and girls prefer not to undress, shower, sleep and otherwise be vulnerable in front of unknown males. For all sorts of reasons - religious, abuse, previous experiences - but the reasons really don't matter.
Women and girls are entitled to say no. No is a complete sentence.

This. It's as simple as that.

stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou · 28/04/2022 22:27

titchy · 28/04/2022 22:23

F-t-M.

Can she get changed in a "boys" space?

Dear god you've done it again - don't you respect gender identity enough to use the pronoun 'he' for a FTM trans boy?

Oh behave.

You've made no actual points.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/04/2022 22:28

So the teacher says will you get changed in the boys changing room and he says no.

He needs to use another space, and the school needs to provide one. It's a legal requirement to have single sex toilets and changing rooms in schools.