Grace Lavery on Woman’s Hour Today (7 April)

[CaveMum]

Why on earth I do not know, but the “delightful” Grace Lavery is on Woman’s Hour today.

This Grace Lavery

Manicsfan - I thought so too. Be funny if DE decided to shit all over the book in response. In print, I mean. Though.....

As one of this board's occasional transcribers, just checking in after a night out. DomesticatedZombies freezing fingers, and SignalBox coming through - not sure if I'm required, nor whether Grace's contribution is worthy of a transcribe effort, or useful for posterity?

But just listening to Emma's introduction on the programme, where she describes Boris Johnson's input this week as 'I actually spoke to her on Monday of this week, before the Prime Minister's rants which we aired at the beginning of this programme'

Did I hear that right? Did she describe Boris Johnson's comments on the issue as 'rants'?

If I've heard right, what an extraordinary way to discuss his statements. 'Rants'.

To go all Posie Parker on the dictionary definition of 'rant': "If you say that someone rants, you mean that they talk loudly or angrily, and exaggerate or say foolish things."

Really Emma?

I'm no Conservative fan, but his statements on this issue didn't reflect a 'rant'. I saw no anger, loudness, or foolishness.

You've just prefaced an interview with Grace with referring to the 'staggering penis' work and then immediately went on to say Boris Johnson's contribution was 'rants'

How...odd!

Is the book really called staggering penis? Surely swaggering penis would have been more apt?

EB referred to the Prime minister's "remarks" not rants

I did enjoy EB's first question, which was "Why open a book, about transitioning to a woman, with your penis?"

If you hadn’t read the thread but just heard the interview you would know that the person is male from their voice . So why all the deletions @mumsnet HQ?

I've not heard of Grace before but have just listened to the interview from this morning. Great work from Woman's Hour - it was another really iinteresting listen.

However, what a contrast to the interview with Maya Forstater!

• Grace - so many words!
• Maya such clarity under fire.

I suspect that a book by Maya would be a better read than the penis one.

Whilst not the most important point by any means, I'm raging by GL's appropriation of title of Dave Eggers book for such a crass, cringey title.
A Staggering Work of Heartbreaking Genius is based on Dave taking care of his young brother when his Mum and Dad both die, of tragic illnesses. It's funny, original, heartbreaking, honest and human. And Dave has done loads for child literacy since. What a total fucking scunner to have this gammon stealing your book title.

I agree.

"My penis, blah blah, pedantry, pedantry, pedantry, me, me, me, I'm a pervert, blah blah, I think, I think, I think, me, me, me a bit more pedantry, I hope an old lady dies" did I miss anything?

No I think you're good.

@NecessaryScene

Threads about individuals are often the most tightly policed. The thread about Billy Bragg got deleted altogether, and he isn't even a woman. This one is potentially in danger of going the same way.

I don't think that the Billy Bragg thread got deleted due to comments about Billy though, more as a result of a massive me-railer.

What a step forward for feminism to have this inspirational woman talking about her penis on Woman's Hour and telling us all how to be feminists. I'm impressed that we have reached such heights in our centuries-old battle for equality.

I do think, however, that true equality will only be on the horizon when Top Gear invites a trans man on the show to talk obsessively about his male vagina and to share his story of how he had a spiritual experience while driving fast in a big thrusting powerful car and it made him realise he had to transition to live as a man. Maybe he could even teach the Top Gear audience about how to be more masculine in a non-toxic way since he understands masculinity better than they do. Then and only then will we have achieved true equality of the non-existent-and-just-a-social-construct sexes.

probably been guilty of wrongspeak already

What our unseen unofficial monitors are after is our wrongthink.

Opening a book with your penis isn’t that impressive.

Now, opening a jar of pickles with your penis, that gets my respect.

@WarmWinterSun

Thank you to all the posters for the summaries and discussion. I missed the interview and am not sure if I can bring myself to listen as I expect it will wind me up.

These threads give me increasing confidence to stand my ground on this issue and defend legal protections for biological women.

I thought that, but I just found myself laughing at most of it.

It's so ridiculous it's just funny. I wouldn't give Lavery the time of day, but I imagine it helped our case just like Lia Thomas does.

Also totally agree with Manucfan how dare he nick that book title and take the piss. Hope Dave Eggars sues him.

@Deliriumoftheendless

Opening a book with your penis isn’t that impressive.

Now, opening a jar of pickles with your penis, that gets my respect.

I don’t know - it’s really not a part of the anatomy where you want to risk getting a [whole load of] papercut[s] is it? Not quite as risky as attempting origami with it (in any sense of that phrase 😐) but it’s definitely one of those “don’t try this at home*” things.

Agree completely with PPs about how inappropriate the appropriation of the title is. I suppose if you are an individual who feels entitled to redefine “woman” to include yourself; to tell women they’re not entitled to any kind of sex-based protections; & publicly post photos of your spouse with your fist in their mouth/a very clear bitemark [made by you] on their cheek on Insta & then claim they’re “revenge porn” when other social media users repost them… well, boundaries & respect for others do not seem, when evaluating the evidence available, to be Lavery’s Thing.

Of course, the title can also be read as an announcement that the book is of execrable quality & the author is… obnoxious. Bold choice to announce that you’re a complete dick & have made it your life’s work to hone said dickishness, but there we are 🤷‍♀️

• or indeed anywhere else (not envy, to be clear, but rather unparalleled boke…)

The whole "sex-based rights have only been mentioned since...." is such a red herring. We had someone trying to tell this on a thread earlier in the week and a) someone proved that the phrase was in use when they were studying decades ago b) when we talk about women's rights it should be really, really obvious that what we mean is rights for errrmmm oh yeah women, as in the female sex c) references to gender in that context are synonymous with sex and not in any way referring to special hot tub inspired menz feelz.

@unwashedanddazed

I did enjoy EB's first question, which was "Why open a book, about transitioning to a woman, with your penis?"

🤣🤣🤣 it's a good trick if you can,to be fair.

🤣

@Deliriumoftheendless

Opening a book with your penis isn’t that impressive.

Now, opening a jar of pickles with your penis, that gets my respect.

Yeah, come back and talk when you can do something useful with it, please.

Grace does come across as graceless.

And no one with a penis is a she. I might use that pronoun if dealing with them in person if they weren't making outrageous demands, but anyone who goes on about their penis and then tells me I'm womanning wrong... Ah, feck off, luv.

@Manicsfan

Whilst not the most important point by any means, I'm raging by GL's appropriation of title of Dave Eggers book for such a crass, cringey title. A Staggering Work of Heartbreaking Genius is based on Dave taking care of his young brother when his Mum and Dad both die, of tragic illnesses. It's funny, original, heartbreaking, honest and human. And Dave has done loads for child literacy since. What a total fucking scunner to have this gammon stealing your book title.

Absolutely agree.

I am aghast though that Grace picked a very male pun on this title. How did his lady brain think of such a gross pun?

GL says they’re a scholar of 19th century literature but it appears they haven’t read much of it. John Stuart Mill - a man so much more important than, say Mary Wollstonecraft or those other harpies - talks about women as a sex class ALL THE TIME. Gosh, he even proposed a Private Member’s Bill To give those pesky women the vote.

But of course unless Mill or others used the specific term
“Sex based rights” then clearly NO-ONE talked about womens rights. Just no-one

I think there are are a couple of universities which should demand their degrees back.

@WarriorN TY for JulieB quote: ‘More peaks than a meringue…’

Fnar fnar 😆