Breaking news - Emily won't compete

[Doyoumind]

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/60934099

Stella's turned me tory. To sit here and listen to a panel of highly privileged men and women have no regard for women and their rights to fair sport actually makes me feel sick. How are our politicians and media so thick? I hate their luxury beliefs and their pretentiousness .. I hate them.

I got the vibe that the Tory MP had been briefed about #bekind and #brave, and wasn't 100% sure of himself and overegged it. He was nodding furiously along with the Telegraph bloke who brought it back a bit more into reality

It is a welcome statement, but we need far more reassurance about the future and from other sports. You should not be able to chemically alter your hormones, change your name and hey presto enter any competition, far deeper checks and balances and protections are needed. The strength, biology and make up of individuals and not just hormone levels.

@springtimeishereagain

I honestly don't understand what all the chest beating and gnashing of teeth is about trying to find a fair way for athletes to compete.

Just say no to ALL men in women's sports!!! It's not rocket science.

Exactly.

There is no reason why transwomen can't compete in sport either- they are able to compete in the category that matches their biological sex. It's transmen that frankly have no real choices- they cannot compete against women because of the advantages of taking testosterone and they cannot compete against men for obvious reasons. Funny how the discussion is never around what is 'fair' or how 'difficult' it must be for them. I wonder why that is....

@littlbrowndog

Why does creasy always say this stuff

Most marginalised. Legion suicide

If I was a transgender person I would be dead angry being treated like a child and to be pitied

She’s an idiot. And a patronising one at that

And I'd be angry about the immersive fiction of a hostile ecosystem in which people who are vaguely aware of their own privilege are somehow persuaded that they are amongst the most marginalised and that they ought to be feeling suicidal. (Reports of suicidal ideation seem to be a common coaching point when mentoring children who want to persuade their parents to support an approach to a GP for a referral or other interventions.)

If self-appointed allies need to disseminate this level of misinformation and disinformation, it's bewildering at best and actively harmful. It would prompt me to question why this is thought to be acceptable advocacy.

She also distanced herself from making decisions - "it's for the scientists". Pretty sure that's NOT the line Labour would take (or want to be seen taking) about abortion. "It's for the doctors to decide, we could t possibly have a view".

Feelingoktoday

Totally agree. That's the side of this I come down on. But I do think it would be valuable to point out to IW (and their supporters) that Male athletes who have artificially reduced their testosterone to 5/aka "acceptable" still have levels WAY above what is legally acceptable for Female athletes to participate with

I can't help wondering if eventually they'll have to create a new category of sport for CIS Women.

Men would just claim to be ‘cis’ women though.

@MamaSaidTheredBeDaysLikeThis

I can't help wondering if eventually they'll have to create a new category of sport for CIS Women.

Men would just claim to be ‘cis’ women though.

We don't need to use "CIS" woman is anacceotable definition in and of itself.

Jeremy Vine came so close to saying the unsayable though. Talking about female to male transgender individuals, and how they don't compete against men, and he started to say that basically there would be no point as they wouldn't stand a chance. But then held back, and put on his special voice, and said he didn't want to say anything.

The suicide line has been so thoroughly debunked by now she's either woefully uninformed (which is unforgivable) or being deliberately misleading (also unforgivable.)

I'd imagine the second is more likely. She's not stupid, and she's proved quite manipulative at times.

Well colour me shocked that Stella creasy who had her arse handed to her on mumsnet for being unable to define what a woman is, hasn’t a clue about how to keep men out of Women’s sports because it’s all sooooo haaaarrd but simultaneously wants more women and mothers in politics

Men don’t belong in Female Sports categories.
This is why they have men and women’s categories.

Sick of hearing about cheating men.

@Chrysanthemum5

Jeremy Vine came so close to saying the unsayable though. Talking about female to male transgender individuals, and how they don't compete against men, and he started to say that basically there would be no point as they wouldn't stand a chance. But then held back, and put on his special voice, and said he didn't want to say anything.

Jeremy Vine and his “ Special voice”

I’ll have to listen to that. 🙂

@Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky

Well colour me shocked that Stella creasy who had her arse handed to her on mumsnet for being unable to define what a woman is, hasn’t a clue about how to keep men out of Women’s sports because it’s all sooooo haaaarrd but simultaneously wants more women and mothers in politics

And will, no doubt, be baffled that women who've given birth may find no space for them on an all women shortlist that is populated with the Stunning and Brave.

@WinterTrees

The suicide line has been so thoroughly debunked by now she's either woefully uninformed (which is unforgivable) or being deliberately misleading (also unforgivable.)

Where and what ARE the suicide stats? I can't find anything much online (apart from from groups like Mermaids...)

Where and what ARE the suicide stats? I can't find anything much online

This string will return a number of threads that discuss these on MN—Creasey's vagueness means that she isn't pinned to any specific set of statistics or numbers for any particular age groups or even any specific countries of parts of the world. There are various misinterpreted surveys…

site:mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights trans suicide stats

The testosterone levels are a slight red herring though as most, if not all the other physiological advantages to being an adult biological male (eg the hip angle etc that Sharron Davies mentioned) don't go away with hormone treatments.

It's essentially allowing athletes to take performance modifying drugs which isn't acceptable at any other point other than facilitating men to perform in women's categories, because they either feel special or won't be able to compete at the level required in the actual male category.

Oh India the Peter Crouch argument is woeful! While being exceptionally tall conferred him an advantage over smaller players in a few aspects of the game the lower centre of gravity, greater acceleration, ability to make tighter turns etc give the smaller players advantage over him which is why, unlike basketball, football is not more or less exclusively played at a professional level by very tall people.

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus

Where and what ARE the suicide stats? I can't find anything much online

This string will return a number of threads that discuss these on MN—Creasey's vagueness means that she isn't pinned to any specific set of statistics or numbers for any particular age groups or even any specific countries of parts of the world. There are various misinterpreted surveys…

site:mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights trans suicide stats

Thanks so much.

Thinking about Stella's remark about suicide. I think she's got a point. Why don't we just use womens sport as a mental crutch for society's psychologically vulnerable? We could just turn institutions and let sll the patients race eachother. Thats sure to help them and it would be so kind and inclusive!

No wait... That is utterly IRRELEVANT.

@oakleaffy

Men don’t belong in Female Sports categories. This is why they have men and women’s categories.

Sick of hearing about cheating men.

This this and more this

Evan Davis on the PM programme on Radio 4 tackled this. Mentioned Lia Thomas. Guess who the expert was?

Joanna Harper.

Who was all about reduced testosterone. And anyway sport is never fair. Transwomen who are sincere are women, they're under-represented, and they won't take over women's sport. At least Harper acknowledged that the science isn't settled.

Davis was far less confident pushing the gender identity ideology. He knows this is ridiculous and knows being a cheerleader here is unwise.