Breaking news - Emily won't compete

[Doyoumind]

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/60934099

What is the max testosterone levels permitted in female athletes?

India doing a specially wobbly voice because of Sharron's 'trans-aggression'. India just wants to have a chance to speak.

JV points out they're just having a heated discussion.

Having taken a place of a female on the team, I suspect a tactic in the first race of deliberately not winning ("there's no problem you see!" say the blue ticked men) and from there take from female athletes a piece at a time

Not unlike the much heralded first TW to openly compete in the women's category at the Olympics who happened to be 20 years older than the average participant in that event and suffering an injury that it usually career end so happened not to do very well?

Now on Jeremy Vine, India Willoughby talking absolute rubbish as usual - suggesting bigger football players have an advantage over smaller ones but we don't ban them. Indeed Willoughby because they are all within the normal boundaries for men. Whereas transwomen are not women so cannot be within normal boundaries for women.

It's not hard

Sharron just pointed out that India themself said that transwomen shouldn't be competing against women in sport.

Excellent work by Sharron. India admitting that previously believed very strongly that transwomen shouldn't be competing in women's sports. India is an idiot.

They’re going to discuss this on Politics Live now (BBC2). Stella Creasy is on the panel, they have a guest who is a trans campaigner.

I'm glad the issue is getting plenty of press coverage. It's like the world is waking up a bit.

About bloody time!

Mother of NB child now phoning in. 'Born with a female body.' JV failing to grasp what NB means. Frankly, the explanation isn't doing much to help.

I'm not sure what point the caller is making. Surely their female-bodied NB child wouldn't want to play sport with women?

I’m not aware of all the issues so please excuse any ignorance but I haven’t heard of any female to male transgender people being able to compete within any male sports.
Is this not telling? I have only seen/heard male to female competitors in multiple sports.
Surely if it’s as equal as these committees say we would see everyone and anyone qualifying both ways?

I'm listening now too.

Honestly I have to step away from this all at times. Genuinely it's affecting my mental health- I cannot believe how absolutely insane things are these days.

I can't believe there's even a debate about whether it's fair for men to compete against women.

That parent of the non-binary child- what utter rubbish.

This is actually very heartening. Having listened to an awful lot of these discussions on radio over the last 5 years, I've never heard one that was so uninhibited in its support of women.

So many wise women here said it would be sport that would tip the balance.

@Cwenthryth

They’re going to discuss this on Politics Live now (BBC2). Stella Creasy is on the panel, they have a guest who is a trans campaigner.

She's already said the gender of a refugee isn't relevant. (Different topic but the discussion was on women and children refugees).

I don't understand the argument about them having puberty blockers before puberty. They aren't the problem. Noone stuck in their childhood body will be an elite swimmer or cyclist. Maybe a gymnast? The effects on bone development would limit sports for them massively.

Talking about it on BBC2 now.

@ATrifleofFun - that's a good point. I suppose people think that it would avoid trans women having the bone density, muscle strength etc that comes with male puberty.

None of the bbc2 lot are saying very much - it's a sensitive issue, etc etc.

[quote bellabelly]@ATrifleofFun - that's a good point. I suppose people think that it would avoid trans women having the bone density, muscle strength etc that comes with male puberty.[/quote]
They would probably want to access under 12 or under 14 categories as in the vast majority of sports they would not be able to compete with adults.

She's already said the gender of a refugee isn't relevant. (Different topic but the discussion was on women and children refugees)
I missed that. I mean she’s not wrong the gender of a refugee isn’t relevant! I think Creasy is woefully naive on women’s rights issues around gender self ID, but that she spoke very well just now on refugee issues

So far conversation is dull and predictable

Trans sport campaigner claiming transwomen don’t have any physical advantage

Tory MP actually just said “most marginalised people in society” (really?)

Now the debate itself is transphobic, apparently.

Yawn

@bellabelly

None of the bbc2 lot are saying very much - it's a sensitive issue, etc etc.

All the usual absolute bullshit.

I would love to go back in a time machine to when the world was at least a little bit more sane.

Is this not telling? I have only seen/heard male to female competitors in multiple sports
Surely if it’s as equal as these committees say we would see everyone and anyone qualifying both ways?
The biological woman is at a disadvantage in both scenarios. Transmen would be at a disadvantage against biological males, in the majority of sports.
But biological women are also at a disadvantage if TW are allowed to compete against them in sport.

I tried to explain this to my teen DD who is insistent that TWAW. She agreed but said it was transphobic if trans athletes weren't allowed to compete.

Clip of Sajid Javid saying that categories should be based on biological sex rather than gender. Good.

Stella creasy

Pure idiot

Bit concerning on BBC2 that it's all:

• research isn't there
• focus on elite athletes
• focus on bravery of trans

This misses:

• biological reality, as though women can form the answer in the form of being research objects
• we won't have elite female athletes if women's sport becomes mixed sex
• no recognition of the silencing of FEMALE ATHLETES