‘Trans women have been using women's spaces for years’

[DameHelena]

What does one say to this argument? I’m instinctively sceptical but I don’t know if I’m right to be.

@StopLying

humor me - what sex am I?

Your identity is pretty apparent. Maybe you didn't realise that.

Of course I do, which is why I am totally floored that several here seem to think I am a man

because they're women

oh man

some men are women?

aye, right

@CatherinaJTV, see the example I gave above from my own 'lived experience', of a male colleague who identified as a woman for a year or so, made women uncomfortable in their toilet at their place of work, and then a year later identified as a man again.

was he a woman during the period he identified as one? was it ok for him to be making me uncomfortable using the toilets at work during that time?

What's a woman?
If they are women, what is a woman?

It's funny how some posters always out themselves as not who they claim to be with their fantasies about how women live our lives.

And just like everyone else, I've never had a conversation with a random woman in a toilet about hair, make up, clothing and certainly never asked them to pass me a towel.

So why are women very much noticing now I wonder? What has changed? (Eyes hurt now from rolling too much...)

I have complimented women/been complimented on hair, shoes or outfit. It’s not that weird. I was born with a uterus.

Bonkers. Actually we wondered where you've been. You were missed on the Manchester Hates Women thread.

@Mamapep

I have complimented women/been complimented on hair, shoes or outfit. It’s not that weird. I was born with a uterus.

thank you, same

Cath - just to be completely clear.

You think the middle aged man second from the left in this photo is FEMALE? or a WOMAN? Or a MAN?

@VampireMoney

My best friend is a transwoman. You'd walk past her in the loos and never even know she's trans. You might even compliment her on her beautiful hair or her outfit or ask where she got her shoes. She might say she loves your lipstick shade. And you'd go on with your day not knowing you'd spoken to a transwoman.

Get. A. Grip.

1: you’re insane if you think most transwomen can’t be clocked by actual women 2: so what if your friend isn’t identifiable as trans? He still shouldn’t be using female only spaces

On what basis are they women?

@Mamapep if a female member of your family received feedback on her appearance by a man in the women's loos, would you think that nice or creepy, honestly hand on heart?

@Mamapep

I have complimented women/been complimented on hair, shoes or outfit. It’s not that weird. I was born with a uterus.

Where?

In the toilets? Which toilets? Is this something that happens in the toilets of the Met Gala?

Actually the game is up ladies. We've been caught in a massive gotcha.

I think it's best we start listing what we do in the toilets.

1. I stand admiring myself and other women at the mirrors and then I compliment womens fabulous dresses and ask them where they got them from. We then giggle a lot and swish our long hair.

1. I don't just ask about lipsticks - we all SHARE them! Whilst giggling!

1. "Where did you get those shoes?" This is the way that I find out how to buy shoes.

1. If children are in the loo I don't worry too much about being naked. Why am I naked in the loo you may ask! Don't look is my answer!

1. I turn the taps to the left and that lets me into the secret inner woman chamber. This is where myself and other women share tampons and towels. We whisper secrets. It's romantic and dizzying and exciting! We have a braiding salon in there. And pop tarts!

1. Some women - the grubby ones in trousers or the frumpy old Mumsnet mums go in there and have a pee. I don't think they should be allowed in there at all.

1. When I leave I spray the entire toilet with Angel perfume. Because I'm an angel.

What does everyone else do in there? It's best to be honest because we've been caught out!

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Women at the knicker factory objecting to Hayley Cropper using the women's toilets was in fact a subplot in Coronation Street.

The women objecting (I think it was led by Leanne Battersby's mum) were portrayed as bigoted, and ignorant, and Hayley was tiny and vulnerable.

If those episodes had been broadcast using an actual male transitioner instead of a female actress, they'd have had a very different effect on viewers.

Yes, I wonder now if that was done as intentional propaganda.

you've gone a bit quiet @CatherinaJTV

It makes me feel tired just saying this, but if you're going to tell me some adult human males are women, then please define 'woman' without using the word 'woman'.

tell me how Kellie Maloney who tried to strangle his wife is a woman
tell me how Andrea 'the barest essentials of femaleness are an open mouth, an expectant asshole, blank, blank eyes' Long Chu is a woman
tell me how extreme porn advocate Jane Fae is a woman

come on. what characteristics do I share with those males that makes us all women?

Catherina is female, yep.

I'm happy to take your word on that, Catherina. Do you acknowledge my experience of the transwoman in the toilet as a teenage girl, masturbating at the sink?

Yes, I wonder now if that was done as intentional propaganda.

It was. Press for Change were heavily involved.

@DomesticatedZombie

Catherina is female, yep.

I'm happy to take your word on that, Catherina. Do you acknowledge my experience of the transwoman in the toilet as a teenage girl, masturbating at the sink?

That's disgusting and I am sorry.

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

you've gone a bit quiet *@CatherinaJTV*

It makes me feel tired just saying this, but if you're going to tell me some adult human males are women, then please define 'woman' without using the word 'woman'.

tell me how Kellie Maloney who tried to strangle his wife is a woman
tell me how Andrea 'the barest essentials of femaleness are an open mouth, an expectant asshole, blank, blank eyes' Long Chu is a woman
tell me how extreme porn advocate Jane Fae is a woman

come on. what characteristics do I share with those males that makes us all women?

Which characteristics do you share with "natal" female criminals? That discussion is not going to get us anywhere.

@tabbycatstripy

'Seriously? How sad? I give and get compliments all the time. Is that not normal?'

It was when I was sixteen. Now I'm an adult I rush in and out of the toilet carrying my shopping and my kids' school stuff. I don't notice other people's shoes.

I give compliments to, and get compliments from, strangers about what I'm wearing and what they are wearing. This can and does happen in the street or standing in a queue, in shops and even the ladies loo.

It does happen. It might not happen to the regular posters on FWR but just because it's never happened to you (general you) doesn't mean it never happens.

Lipstick/ makeup- no. That seems a little odd. Clothes are different. If someone , whether me or anyone else, is wearing something which stands out as beautiful/ stunning/ different/outre/ the assumption is, it's meant to be noticed - so commenting is fine. Commenting "I love your makeup" is not as there's a sort of undertone of "and lord knows what you might look without it"

I do not consent to making women's spaces mixed sex. I do not consent to men in (what should be) women's spaces. I never did and I never will.

Any man who insists on disregarding women's boundaries is EXACTLY the kind of man we don't want to share with.

Which characteristics do you share with "natal" female criminals? That discussion is not going to get us anywhere.

a female body

what with being a woman, and them also being women

what characteristics do I share with the charmers I mentioned @CatherinaJTV ?

come on. you think I should put up with men making me uncomfortable in the loos for this. i'm assuming you've got a cracking answer

Asking for a paper towel though? No. Why on earth would anyone do that? Get your own.