AIBU? Trans friend....

[OrchardBlack]

Have NC'd for this.

So a close friend of mine (female) and I booked tickets to an event in our town some time ago, due to take place in a few weeks. Both excited and looking forward to it , all good.

A few weeks ago she asks me if a male , straight friend of hers can also join, no problem, the more the merrier. I've never met him.

Except it now transpires that he has (quite suddenly from what I gather) said he is transitioning to be a woman and will use this night as his 'coming out'. He has messaged my friend saying that he's going to wear a sun dress and heels and he's nervous but excited too. He has also said we are to refer to him by his female name. My friend says he is currently in a relationship with a woman.

Now my friend is saying she is finding this all a lot to take on so suddenly as she's known him for many years as his male name and never even seen him with makeup on. I asked if he would be using the women's toilets on our night out, she doesn't know but I can only assume he is.

I feel very uncomfortable, as does my friend. I am fully supportive of people choosing to live how they wish, I just can't help feeling he's high-jacked our night. He isn't out as trans to any of his family etc so he has said no photos of the night etc. I'm also massively concerned that he is clearly still attracted to women and what this means for the safe spaces such as toilets etc.

She says she doesn't feel like she can talk to him about it and is concocting a plan to say she has covid and giving me my money back so we don't go. I'm dissapointed as I was looking forward to it.

AIBU to be deflated and a bit annoyed??

I'm up to page 11 and still don't know why this isn't in AIBU .

Did the OP request it to be moved or waz that a non collaborative move by the mods? I'm puzzled.

@JayAlfredPrufrock

You lot.

Odfod

Oh dear.

Using women’s loos and going on a night out with someone they don’t really know. It seems an unlikely scenario, too much in one go, unless there’s something they aren’t telling you.

Everyone is different, but it was a huge deal for my trans woman friend to walk from her house to her car in the early days, let alone walk into a packed venue full of people who have been drinking.

Would your friend be willing to talk to their friend and gently suggest a gentler social event that might be easier for them to navigate and free you up to carry out your original plans?

@PinaColada123456 I was responding to this

Excuse me, you have no idea what “most transwomen” are like. Nor have I, but I don’t pretend to. Read the news for plentiful court reports of crimes by transwomen

That was said in response to this

The last transwoman I spoke to was the gentlest person I’ve ever met. She actually avoids public toilets or goes in the disabled as doesn’t want to make biological woman feel uncomfortable. This is what most transwomen are like.

Please tell me where 'transwomen barely commit any crimes' was said?

Oh and again, I'd file this under 'things that never happened.' I suspect OP has achieved his/her aim though.

@HailAdrian

See, this is what fucks me off about mumsnet. I don't believe that anyone can change sex. I don't believe anyone with a dick should be using spaces meant for women and girls. I don't believe biological makes should be competing against women in sport.

You lot though, come out with shit like this, implying the majority of transwomen are dangerous, calling them 'it,' etc. and then deny you are transphobic. Why not show some basic respect or at least stop lying and accept that yes, you are transphobic.

@HailAdrian I'm agree with this 100% 👏👏👏👏 Most people I speak to in real life feel this way too.

It's possible to not want male bodies in changing rooms or female sport without calling trans women perverts, fetishists, fantasists and misogynists. I think the posters who use this kind of language then claim not to be transphobic are knowingly disingenuous.

@HailAdrian

See, this is what fucks me off about mumsnet. I don't believe that anyone can change sex. I don't believe anyone with a dick should be using spaces meant for women and girls. I don't believe biological makes should be competing against women in sport.

You lot though, come out with shit like this, implying the majority of transwomen are dangerous, calling them 'it,' etc. and then deny you are transphobic. Why not show some basic respect or at least stop lying and accept that yes, you are transphobic.

I'd like to add my support to this.

I'm gender critical. I'm not a twat.

Its the difference between 95% of sex offenders are males, and 95% of males are sex offenders. If I say the first and people choose to hear the second, then that's their poor comprehension skills, not my bigotry.

@Susu49

Um, yes I think yabu. Why can't you be happy for him?

Disclaimer: I'm aware I don't hold the same views as many in mumsnet.

You couldn't even keep up the pretence for one sentence, could you??

Regardless of whether this situation is real or not. Men are using women's facilities, raping women on women's wards and winning women's races.

If no men took these actions while pretending to be women, the issues would not exist.

@Joinedforthis22

Seriously this is just one side screaming transgender and the other screaming homophobe and those of us in the middle being labeled either for asking questions in an attempt to understand this new and baffling world.

I understand it's an emotive issue but educating is the way not reporting and shouting down who you view as your opponent.

Enjoy the bun fight you've created OP, I think that was potentially what you wanted.

What would you like educating on?

Heres a great start
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread

I’m only on page 12 here, but on the matter of predatory males… they are going to act regardless of whether they’ve a guise surely? Choosing to become trans in order to prey on women seems an extraordinarily elaborate thing to do. I’m not saying it hasn’t happened but I’d like to see some stats on how common it actually is. I completely understand women wanting safe spaces, particularly if they’ve experienced harassment or assault previously, I’m just not sure that trans women are the right target (personally).

This thread perfectly illustrates why we're in the mess we are in.
If any man who didn't identify as trans came in and tried to hijack and dictate two women's evening like this, the vast majority of MN would be in agreement that it was full of red flags and boundary crossing.
Instead, we have people coming in and telling those posters off for being transphobic.
And then we have the 'this didn't happen' crew who'll then insist in the next breath that if it did happen, the problem is with the women for not being kind, whether the OP or us on the board.
There is a single hard line here.
Women have the right to say no, whether this is a real situation or a hypothetical one.
We do not have to be kind to anyone who has no intention of being kind to us, and is taking advantage of us.
If you are struggling with either of those things, then that is tough. You have no right to insist that women prioritise trans women's wants over their own boundaries and needs. None.

Ok wow this has got so many responses I couldn't respond to all of them individually. Also to clarify quickly, I posted this in FWR board and not AIBU, MNHQ didn't move it, I just didn't know what else to title it!

@JayAlfredPrufrock - I'm happy to send you the screenshots of messages between my friend and I (and the one she sent me he sent to her) if you don't believe me.

Anyway, I have an update - after ruminating on it all day, my friend decided to message him and voice her concerns. Told him about it being something we were both looking forward to for a long time and she'd feel the same if he was making it into his birthday/anniversary night. Said she's worried its not the right night for it and it would be a big step and does he want to ensure his family/friends are all at least aware first.

He has kicked off and took offence that she called it a 'girls night'. Said he had thought she would be supportive. Has asked for his money back and told us to go alone.

So that is what we are doing!

Have a great night.

@IvorCutler

I’m only on page 12 here, but on the matter of predatory males… they are going to act regardless of whether they’ve a guise surely? Choosing to become trans in order to prey on women seems an extraordinarily elaborate thing to do. I’m not saying it hasn’t happened but I’d like to see some stats on how common it actually is. I completely understand women wanting safe spaces, particularly if they’ve experienced harassment or assault previously, I’m just not sure that trans women are the right target (personally).

Men have joined the priesthood to get closer to victims. Some guy in Canada changed his birthday certificate to female to get cheaper car insurance. Men do all sorts of things because it advantages them. This is no different.

Have fun!

Oh I forgot to say. My friend has also told me that he has told her that when he split up from an ex girlfriend he stole a pair of her knickers and a dress of hers and would wear it regularly in his house, and he still has them. Has also said he will never get any surgery and will just change his gym workouts to 'feminise' his body. (He's apparently a big gym nut) I swear on my life that is what she told me he said.

So yeah there's definitely some unsavouriness to his particular transition journey, if that is indeed what he is doing.

@HailAdrian also happy to send you the screenshots if you don't believe me 👌

@Lockheart. Not a drip I'm afraid to dissapoint you. A further conversation tonight with my friend on the phone tonight because I've been at work all day, where she has told me this new information.

Just want to add to my post that I have been followed into the ladies toilets and pushed into a cubicle by a cis male in a busy pub before and it was fucking terrifying. I was there with my husband and my fil and they actually laughed it off when I managed to get out and told them. I think the idea that there are actually safe spaces is a total misnomer.

@JayAlfredPrufrock you clearly do care or you wouldn't have started troll hunting me. This is a very real, quite difficult situation I am in and I do not need you questioning my truthfulness. Now, if you really don't care as you say you don't, perhaps this isn't the thread for you.