AIBU? Trans friend....

[OrchardBlack]

Have NC'd for this.

So a close friend of mine (female) and I booked tickets to an event in our town some time ago, due to take place in a few weeks. Both excited and looking forward to it , all good.

A few weeks ago she asks me if a male , straight friend of hers can also join, no problem, the more the merrier. I've never met him.

Except it now transpires that he has (quite suddenly from what I gather) said he is transitioning to be a woman and will use this night as his 'coming out'. He has messaged my friend saying that he's going to wear a sun dress and heels and he's nervous but excited too. He has also said we are to refer to him by his female name. My friend says he is currently in a relationship with a woman.

Now my friend is saying she is finding this all a lot to take on so suddenly as she's known him for many years as his male name and never even seen him with makeup on. I asked if he would be using the women's toilets on our night out, she doesn't know but I can only assume he is.

I feel very uncomfortable, as does my friend. I am fully supportive of people choosing to live how they wish, I just can't help feeling he's high-jacked our night. He isn't out as trans to any of his family etc so he has said no photos of the night etc. I'm also massively concerned that he is clearly still attracted to women and what this means for the safe spaces such as toilets etc.

She says she doesn't feel like she can talk to him about it and is concocting a plan to say she has covid and giving me my money back so we don't go. I'm dissapointed as I was looking forward to it.

AIBU to be deflated and a bit annoyed??

Really really bad idea to share identifying information with anyone at all on MN. Its data protection history is really not great, and that includes pms.

At some point there will be a first time that he goes out in different clothes / shoes with friends than he usually wears if that is an important part of transition to him and at some point he will ask people to use a different name.

Personally I don't care if anyone regardless of their sex wears shorts or pants or dresses or skirts. I wear whatever I want and feel most comfortable in and so should they. I don't think a man in a dress is hijacking or derailing an entire event. If I was at a concert / art show whatever and my friend's friend showed up in a dress it would not cause me the extreme distress that most on here seem to think they would feel at seeing someone of the male sex not in tradionally masculine clothing.

And if my friend's friend said hey I don't want any pictures of me because I am not out to my family, I have no issue respecting that. I wouldn't think that it had ruined my night to not be able to post pictures of my friend's friend on my social media.

For me, someone wearing clothing that isn't traditionally feminine or masculine and doens't align with their sex or someone asking to not have pictures of them posted are both things that wouldn't even really register so the extreme horror, disgust, distress expressed on here and how many people think seeing male legs in a dress would ruin their entire event and night out surprises me.

Op can just choose to not go if she can't cope with the horror she would feel at a person of the male sex not wearing masculine pants. She doesn't even know this person - policing what someone else wears because you have a rigid image of what men must wear and what women must wear is her problem.

Good outcome, OP. Enjoy your night out!

@OrchardBlack

Ok wow this has got so many responses I couldn't respond to all of them individually. Also to clarify quickly, I posted this in FWR board and not AIBU, MNHQ didn't move it, I just didn't know what else to title it!

@JayAlfredPrufrock - I'm happy to send you the screenshots of messages between my friend and I (and the one she sent me he sent to her) if you don't believe me.

Anyway, I have an update - after ruminating on it all day, my friend decided to message him and voice her concerns. Told him about it being something we were both looking forward to for a long time and she'd feel the same if he was making it into his birthday/anniversary night. Said she's worried its not the right night for it and it would be a big step and does he want to ensure his family/friends are all at least aware first.

He has kicked off and took offence that she called it a 'girls night'. Said he had thought she would be supportive. Has asked for his money back and told us to go alone.

So that is what we are doing!

Well that’s a relief. He sounds a bit insufferable. Hope you have a good time with your friend, untrammelled by drama.

That’s good news OP. Enjoy your night out!

@ClaryFairchild

Of course someone dressed as a woman will be using the women's toilets. I don't like to but can you imagine the abuse they will have if they enter that men's toilets?!

Why would they be abused? I doubt very much that any of the men I know who be anything other than mildly bemused at this.

I suppose if a trans woman who looked like Blaire White wandered in they might be a bit embarrassed and suggest Blaire was in the wrong loo - but for anyone not passing that well- mild bemusement.

@TheGreatATuin

This thread perfectly illustrates why we're in the mess we are in. If any man who didn't identify as trans came in and tried to hijack and dictate two women's evening like this, the vast majority of MN would be in agreement that it was full of red flags and boundary crossing. Instead, we have people coming in and telling those posters off for being transphobic. And then we have the 'this didn't happen' crew who'll then insist in the next breath that if it did happen, the problem is with the women for not being kind, whether the OP or us on the board. There is a single hard line here. Women have the right to say no, whether this is a real situation or a hypothetical one. We do not have to be kind to anyone who has no intention of being kind to us, and is taking advantage of us. If you are struggling with either of those things, then that is tough. You have no right to insist that women prioritise trans women's wants over their own boundaries and needs. None.

Yep. This.

Hijacking the night two women friends had planned for a long time, making it all about them, shows such breathtaking male entitlement it's quite funny really.

If it were just a normal bloke doing it, MN would be absolutely clear.

Put on a dress, and suddenly it's a different story for some - except it's really not.

I quite like men in dresses, I think they look cool. I don't think it shows a great degree of sanity when the person involved seems to think that wearing clothing traditionally associated with the opposite sex magically actually MAKES them the opposite sex.

Men in dresses are simply men in dresses. I wish more men would wear them and then there would be no need for any big narcissistic 'coming out' because it would be totally normal, just like women wearing trousers.

OP I'm very happy that you and your friend can enjoy your night out under the original plans!

Good you have plans with your reliable friend and this won't be overshadowed.

Good for you and your friend OP. It sounded like she handled it as sensitively as she could have done in the circumstances. Please don't get into pms with posters you don't know, you don't owe them anything. Troll hunting is against MN rules.

JayAlfredPrufrock - I'm happy to send you the screenshots of messages between my friend and I (and the one she sent me he sent to her) if you don't believe me

Seriously, don't do that, you're on a public forum and you have no idea who's who on here!
Not a good idea to go giving out details like that!

@OrchardBlack

Ok wow this has got so many responses I couldn't respond to all of them individually. Also to clarify quickly, I posted this in FWR board and not AIBU, MNHQ didn't move it, I just didn't know what else to title it!

@JayAlfredPrufrock - I'm happy to send you the screenshots of messages between my friend and I (and the one she sent me he sent to her) if you don't believe me.

Anyway, I have an update - after ruminating on it all day, my friend decided to message him and voice her concerns. Told him about it being something we were both looking forward to for a long time and she'd feel the same if he was making it into his birthday/anniversary night. Said she's worried its not the right night for it and it would be a big step and does he want to ensure his family/friends are all at least aware first.

He has kicked off and took offence that she called it a 'girls night'. Said he had thought she would be supportive. Has asked for his money back and told us to go alone.

So that is what we are doing!

If a friend had messaged me and said “Hey, you’ve kind of hijacked some existing plans here and made them all about you”, I’d be mortified and so apologetic that I’d been self absorbed and shortsighted. The fact that he isn’t speaks volumes to me.

Great outcome Op. Enjoy your night!

Well, sounds like you got a good outcome there for you and your friend, and can enjoy the night without having to be support humans!

Hope you have a great time.

Ah well they didn't want to go unless it was all about her. Hope you enjoy your night.

@OrchardBlack

Oh I forgot to say. My friend has also told me that he has told her that when he split up from an ex girlfriend he stole a pair of her knickers and a dress of hers and would wear it regularly in his house, and he still has them. Has also said he will never get any surgery and will just change his gym workouts to 'feminise' his body. (He's apparently a big gym nut) I swear on my life that is what she told me he said.

So yeah there's definitely some unsavouriness to his particular transition journey, if that is indeed what he is doing.

Did your friend point out that he isn’t a trans woman, the term he needs to use is a transvestite.

Thanks for the update op. Really glad that you and your friend are still getting your night out, it would have been a massive shame to have to cancel to avoid the drama llama. The analogy that your friend made that it's the same as trying to make a pre-existing outing into one's own birthday or other celebration is very valid. It's not specifically about anything to do with this person's transition just their arrogance and self-centredness.

Stealing pants is a vile thing to do

Great outcome, I’m glad you and your friend get your night out!

Sounds a peach, doesn't he?
What a strop.
Enjoy your night out, OP.

OP: I hope you have not and will not send anyone any of your friends messages by PM.

It would be an outrageous use if your friend’s privacy, she would not expect them to be shared.
You have no idea who other posters really are.
It doesn’t prove anything anyway; anyone can set up different accounts and manufacture messages.
The only way to deal with troll hunting is to report to MNHQ.

midlifemusings, this isn't a group of friends going out together. This is someone who has invited himself along to other peoples planned evening - he doesn't even know the OP, and wants to use the occasion to launch his new self without having told his own partner or family. He's making their plans about him and asking them to collude in his deceit of his dp, who presumably the OPs friend knows. This is not on. It isn't just about a long standing friend transitioning.

I'll be honest though - I don't think people are obliged to accept someone in their life transitioning and treat them exactly the same. If they are essentially becoming someone else then their friends and partner have no history with that new someone and aren't obliged to build one!

Hmm I think you're verging on being unreasonable.. you don't even know if they intend to use the women's toilets yet.. I can understand it being something that has just come out of the blue and is unexpected, but I think I'd wait to see what they're acting like on the day before I was too judgemental about it, and yes I do have strong feelings about trans women not being actual women.. but I'd maybe give them the benefit of the doubt and see whether I thought they were being narcissistic and attention seeking or if they maybe had a genuine problem that required sympathy