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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

AIBU? Trans friend....

609 replies

OrchardBlack · 21/03/2022 22:41

Have NC'd for this.

So a close friend of mine (female) and I booked tickets to an event in our town some time ago, due to take place in a few weeks. Both excited and looking forward to it , all good.

A few weeks ago she asks me if a male , straight friend of hers can also join, no problem, the more the merrier. I've never met him.

Except it now transpires that he has (quite suddenly from what I gather) said he is transitioning to be a woman and will use this night as his 'coming out'. He has messaged my friend saying that he's going to wear a sun dress and heels and he's nervous but excited too. He has also said we are to refer to him by his female name. My friend says he is currently in a relationship with a woman.

Now my friend is saying she is finding this all a lot to take on so suddenly as she's known him for many years as his male name and never even seen him with makeup on. I asked if he would be using the women's toilets on our night out, she doesn't know but I can only assume he is.

I feel very uncomfortable, as does my friend. I am fully supportive of people choosing to live how they wish, I just can't help feeling he's high-jacked our night. He isn't out as trans to any of his family etc so he has said no photos of the night etc. I'm also massively concerned that he is clearly still attracted to women and what this means for the safe spaces such as toilets etc.

She says she doesn't feel like she can talk to him about it and is concocting a plan to say she has covid and giving me my money back so we don't go. I'm dissapointed as I was looking forward to it.

AIBU to be deflated and a bit annoyed??

OP posts:
Alcoh · 21/03/2022 22:56

@Susu49 forgot that she was playacting for a second. Then caught herself and pulled herself back into the fiction.

Triphazards · 21/03/2022 22:56

@Nellle

Make your excuses. You'll be doing this person a favour by making it clear early on that you are certainly no friend to them.
I think we're still just about allowed to choose our friends.
334bu · 21/03/2022 22:57

Of course someone dressed as a woman will be using the women's toilets. I don't like to but can you imagine the abuse they will have if they enter that men's toilets?!

As Delphinium said "Not women's problem."

AnneLovesGilbert · 21/03/2022 22:57

@Nellle

Make your excuses. You'll be doing this person a favour by making it clear early on that you are certainly no friend to them.
OP doesn’t even know this man. She owes him nothing. Not her company or her validation.
allmywhat · 21/03/2022 22:57

Advise your friend to steer clear. There is some reason he's selected to her to be his personal cheerleader on his "coming out" (why not his girlfriend?) He clearly has very different expectations and ideas of the friendship than she has, and also terrible boundaries.

Rightsraptor · 21/03/2022 22:59

You are not being at all unreasonable. It's your night out too and it's going in a direction you aren't happy with. Why should you spend money and effort on that? Just to please this man, who you don't know. Just no. Plan something else to do with your friend, maybe in a couple of weeks because of her - ahem - Covid and don't let him know.

Nellle · 21/03/2022 23:00

Yes, that's literally what I said.

Sounds like OP (and OP's friend) will choose not be friends with this person based on their gender identity.

Annette32123 · 21/03/2022 23:02

@ClaryFairchild

Of course someone dressed as a woman will be using the women's toilets. I don't like to but can you imagine the abuse they will have if they enter that men's toilets?!
Why would that be the case? That’s awful.

Were that to happen, a constable should be summoned immediately to deal with the louts.

Men should definitely be able to pee in peace, whether they are dressed in combats or a sun dress. And anyone who abuses them for their attire should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

SolasAnla · 21/03/2022 23:02

OrchardBlack (Un)fortunately neither sun dress nor heels have the ability to change the sexual orientation of a hetrosexual to a homosexuals.

ClaryFairchild why would a male dressed in a sun dress and heels at night in April in England be using the female toilets?

What abuse would that male have if the male enter that male toilets?

Triphazards · 21/03/2022 23:04

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Linguini · 21/03/2022 23:04

@ClaryFairchild

Of course someone dressed as a woman will be using the women's toilets. I don't like to but can you imagine the abuse they will have if they enter that men's toilets?!
Gender ideology myth number 17

There's a well known transwoman on Twitter who regularly poses in men's facilities with no problems at all.

Men literally don't care.

Anansiskunk · 21/03/2022 23:05

@Nellle

Yes, that's literally what I said.

Sounds like OP (and OP's friend) will choose not be friends with this person based on their gender identity.

You can't just identify as a woman overnight. You don't get to put on a dress and make it all about you because you're suddenly 'female'. Women aren't celebrated in that way, I don't go out and gatecrash nights out because I got my period, or something womanly happened to me. If this guy really wants to dress as a woman he can do it quietly and kindly still use the gents because you know... Penis.
Lovelyricepudding · 21/03/2022 23:05

SolasAnla if they are abused then they should call the police. We have laws against abuse.

Annette32123 · 21/03/2022 23:05

@Susu49

Um, yes I think yabu. Why can't you be happy for him?

Disclaimer: I'm aware I don't hold the same views as many in mumsnet.

She’s never met him. Why would she be either happy or unhappy for him?

He is rudely hijacking her night out and making it all about him, his frock, his heels and his wanting no photos.

If he wants to practice wearing women’s clothes he should pick a couple of his own mates to so it with. Not intrude on a stranger.

His friend must be mortified that he is being so selfish.

Original poster
OrchardBlack · 21/03/2022 23:06

@Nellle

Yes, that's literally what I said.

Sounds like OP (and OP's friend) will choose not be friends with this person based on their gender identity.

That is absolutely NOT the case at all and I am angered that you have misread completely what I've said. I am currently seeing a friend through his transition, (female to male), its been a very long road and much soul searching on both our parts. I love him and want to be happy, and he has suffered with serious and debilitating gender dysmorphia for many many years. He is now beginning the process in a educated and methodical way. That is not what friend of friend is doing. They are using a night out, which is not actually anything to do with them, to demand expectations of both a friend to call him a totally different name immediately, but keep it secret from his own family, and potentially using women's spaces whilst also identifying as a straight male.

Please do not conflate this issue with me choosing to not associate with them because of their gender identity.

OP posts:
Londoncallingtothefarawaytowns · 21/03/2022 23:07

Regardless of how you feel about any of it: this is really for your friend to deal with
This person isn't YOUR good friend, youre not being unsupportive etc etc but your pal maybe is. She shouldve said to go with her friend for a drink/coffee etc with their own circle ? Whys the pal coming out with you two?
I dont think a lot of people would find that a good fun night, tbh... and as you say, whilst you are not phobic etc its also not your responsibility or idea of a good time.
And its very reasonable to ask what the situation is : your friend hasn't elaborated either ? Trans dressing v trans gender are VERY different things?
One, i woudnt mind in my fitting room and one i would
But were not allowed to ask Sad

dworky · 21/03/2022 23:08

@Susu49

Sorry, her
PMSL
Chloemol · 21/03/2022 23:09

@Susu49

Um, yes I think yabu. Why can't you be happy for him?

Disclaimer: I'm aware I don't hold the same views as many in mumsnet.

Why should he chose this night to come out at trans but not actually tell his family? So op and friend have theworry about using toilets, but also the hassle of no photos etc

It’s wrong of him to do this he can come out to family first, rather than in front of the op, who in fact is some random woman he has never met

Op I would be encouraging your friend to tell him he can’t come, that actually it’s not fair to come out to you two and not his family first as is placing restrictions on you on what you can and can’t photograph. Anyone could take a photo and post it online has he thought of that?

hazandduck · 21/03/2022 23:09

I agree @JayAlfredPrufrock
If you support anyone in living their life how they wish, why is this even an issue? (Before a million people jump down my throat about toilets/safe spaces etc I am gender critical and think sex segregation matters but the OP hasn’t even spoken to the trans person in question here). It almost feels like implying because this person is trans they shouldn’t go to events with their friends any more? I feel like posts like this often weaken the debate around gender. I mean you’re allowed to feel disappointed but I think you’re jumping the gun a bit here.

Annette32123 · 21/03/2022 23:09

@Nellle

Make your excuses. You'll be doing this person a favour by making it clear early on that you are certainly no friend to them.
Why would she be a friend to him? She doesn’t know him. He’s a friend of her friend. Not of hers. Did you think he would become her friend because he put a frock on?
titchy · 21/03/2022 23:10

@ClaryFairchild

Of course someone dressed as a woman will be using the women's toilets. I don't like to but can you imagine the abuse they will have if they enter that men's toilets?!
Why would a man in a dress get abused using the blokes loos. All anyone ever wants to do in a loo is to pee in peace. So we are constantly told.

And actually I doubt there's be much more than a raised eyebrow in the gents to be honest. And he's going to be getting a lot of those...

Annette32123 · 21/03/2022 23:12

@Nellle

Yes, that's literally what I said.

Sounds like OP (and OP's friend) will choose not be friends with this person based on their gender identity.

That’s where you are confused.

What’s putting them off is his utter selfishness and lack of social awareness. Nobody likes a self centred gatecrasher.

Ohsugarhoneyicetea · 21/03/2022 23:13

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dworky · 21/03/2022 23:14

@hazandduck

I agree *@JayAlfredPrufrock* If you support anyone in living their life how they wish, why is this even an issue? (Before a million people jump down my throat about toilets/safe spaces etc I am gender critical and think sex segregation matters but the OP hasn’t even spoken to the trans person in question here). It almost feels like implying because this person is trans they shouldn’t go to events with their friends any more? I feel like posts like this often weaken the debate around gender. I mean you’re allowed to feel disappointed but I think you’re jumping the gun a bit here.
Support anyone living their life as they wish even if that clashes with the dignity & rights of others? No.
Earlydancing · 21/03/2022 23:14

I'd be fed up if I were you too. Not because of any toilet issue but because an evening you were looking forward to will now be all about a person you've never even met and their, understandably for them, heady experience of wearing women's clothing in public for the first time And they're even forbidding you from taking photos. But I don't know how you get out of it without being rude.