AIBU? Trans friend....

[OrchardBlack]

Have NC'd for this.

So a close friend of mine (female) and I booked tickets to an event in our town some time ago, due to take place in a few weeks. Both excited and looking forward to it , all good.

A few weeks ago she asks me if a male , straight friend of hers can also join, no problem, the more the merrier. I've never met him.

Except it now transpires that he has (quite suddenly from what I gather) said he is transitioning to be a woman and will use this night as his 'coming out'. He has messaged my friend saying that he's going to wear a sun dress and heels and he's nervous but excited too. He has also said we are to refer to him by his female name. My friend says he is currently in a relationship with a woman.

Now my friend is saying she is finding this all a lot to take on so suddenly as she's known him for many years as his male name and never even seen him with makeup on. I asked if he would be using the women's toilets on our night out, she doesn't know but I can only assume he is.

I feel very uncomfortable, as does my friend. I am fully supportive of people choosing to live how they wish, I just can't help feeling he's high-jacked our night. He isn't out as trans to any of his family etc so he has said no photos of the night etc. I'm also massively concerned that he is clearly still attracted to women and what this means for the safe spaces such as toilets etc.

She says she doesn't feel like she can talk to him about it and is concocting a plan to say she has covid and giving me my money back so we don't go. I'm dissapointed as I was looking forward to it.

AIBU to be deflated and a bit annoyed??

@BiscuitLover3678

What if this was a woman who was gay? Would you still be scared of her coming and using the toilet with you? So messed up.

The operative word there is woman. Same sex. Conflating being gay as being akin to being the opposite sex makes me think that some people still have great unease and discomfort about same sex attraction?

Don't cancel your night out just tell him he's not invited and he's not coming.

OP, I'm really glad to read that your friend has told him to not come on this night out.

What you said here:

'My friend has also told me that he has told her that when he split up from an ex girlfriend he stole a pair of her knickers and a dress of hers and would wear it regularly in his house, and he still has them. Has also said he will never get any surgery and will just change his gym workouts to 'feminise' his body.'

• he's ticking all the boxes for being an AGP here.

@Susu49

Um, yes I think yabu. Why can't you be happy for him?

Disclaimer: I'm aware I don't hold the same views as many in mumsnet.

Hahaha!

@Ionlydomassiveones

He sounds a typically insufferable entitled male prick. It’s amazing these men who suddenly decide they’re now ‘women’ still retain all the arrogance and self absorption of men. Wearing a summer frock and heels can’t cover that.

Absolutely this!

typically insufferable entitled male prick - sums him up perfectly.

@Susu49 You were right first time - 'HIM'. Man.

He can tape his dick into his bumcrack and wear his wife's dresses on his own time. This is your night out with your friend, not his chance to star in his own attention seeking drama. I would say he can get that with his own partner, but I don't think that's the kind of production he's looking to stage.

If he's not told his partner he should definitely NOT be even toying with the idea of forcing his fetish onto anyone else! The audacity of him roping you into his autogynaephilic fantasy!

@DuckyNoMates

Ah well they didn't want to go unless it was all about her. Hope you enjoy your night.

@DuckyNoMates All about him you mean.

@OrchardBlack OP, the fact that he made it all about himself in his message to you, didn't apologise for hijacking the night (as a PP said, you'd think any other person would be mortified) and says he has absolutely no intention of having surgery (so he is not upset with his genitals-very essence of being a male) shows he's not truly trans, he does not live as a woman, he is simply a cross dresser. I'd advise your friend to steer clear of him and end the friendship with him. He's a total narcissistic arsehole and user. Good that she found out his true colours now.

@itssunnyyay

Hmm I think you're verging on being unreasonable.. you don't even know if they intend to use the women's toilets yet.. I can understand it being something that has just come out of the blue and is unexpected, but I think I'd wait to see what they're acting like on the day before I was too judgemental about it, and yes I do have strong feelings about trans women not being actual women.. but I'd maybe give them the benefit of the doubt and see whether I thought they were being narcissistic and attention seeking or if they maybe had a genuine problem that required sympathy

@itssunnyyay The fact he made the night all about himself already shows he is already narcissistic and attention-seeking, no one wears a dress and heels and decides to use the mens, get real. We all know what he intended to do. If you read the OP's latest update, it is more than clear he is self-absorbed, narcissistic, and a cross-dresser, not truly trans.

@PinaColada123456 what’s truely Trans? My understanding is that 90% of Trans Women have no ‘bottom’ surgery?

"bottom surgery"??

Surgical removal of testicle and inversion of penis to form a facsimile of a vagina.

Sorry testicle and scrotum

334bu

I understand the procedure, just never heard it called "bottom surgery".

@speakout

"bottom surgery"??

It’s referred to as ‘bottom surgery’ because you can have ‘top surgery’, ‘top surgery’ being breast surgery (implants or Brest removal), ‘bottom surgery’ is genital surgery.

... and in both cases the cheery, folksy euphemisms are designed to obscure the reality that both are major surgery with poor outcomes and a high chance of post-surgical complications, e.g. infection, nerve damage, chronic pain.

Yes, it is a cutesy phrase used to minimise the reality of an extremely serious, invasive surgery. It is hardly surprising that only a tiny proportion of male people who identify as women would undergo it.

@ClaryFairchild

Of course someone dressed as a woman will be using the women's toilets. I don't like to but can you imagine the abuse they will have if they enter that men's toilets?!

And thats womens problem how?

we can go into our toilets in hot pants, trousers, mini skirts whatever in confidence of being left alone to do our business.

if men cant handle a man in a skirt thats there problem to deal with, its not ours, and its bollocks anyway never hear of men getting the shit kicked out of them in the bogs for wearing a kilt so its willful victim playing in the hopes women will take pity on them and "be kind" they can fuck off with that and deal with their own problems with each other in their own toilets.

@VaddaABeetch Yes, I believe from some reports it's 97% of transwomen retain their penis and testicles.

@IvorCutler

I’m only on page 12 here, but on the matter of predatory males… they are going to act regardless of whether they’ve a guise surely? Choosing to become trans in order to prey on women seems an extraordinarily elaborate thing to do. I’m not saying it hasn’t happened but I’d like to see some stats on how common it actually is. I completely understand women wanting safe spaces, particularly if they’ve experienced harassment or assault previously, I’m just not sure that trans women are the right target (personally).

*@IvorCutler* Some Stats from Ireland 90 days after application. 3 out of 800 aprox 3 out of 28 places 4 out of 4100 aprox places 1 out of 800 aprox 1 out of 800 aprox I can expand on these if you want details.

I completely understand women wanting safe spaces, particularly if they’ve experienced harassment or assault previously, I’m just not sure that trans women are the right target

Target is an interesting term. Implies hitting or aiming for a specific goal. The OPs senerio illustrates an interesting dilema, rejection, support, transphobia, sexism and questions on personal responsibility.

Firstly can your define what "becoming trans" or "being trans" means and what is your line between personal responibilty and legal rights and obligations? The OPs box and lable may be very different from yours, after all the OP is supporting a female seeking access to male single sex spaces.

The discussion is then not about who fits into your box labled trans woman and everybody's personal responibilty its about legal rights and obligations. Its about how society balances conflicts of rights.

Simple question
What type of activists/people believes that a male
•would train for years in the medical profession then
•go on to specialise in forensic evidence collection then
•go into a room with a girl / boy / woman / man then
•insert his body parts and instruments into that person, who had been sexually abused,
•after he has been informed that the consent for the evidence collection was dependent on it being carried out by a woman?

That was a position of Scotish elected members voting on legislation, debating about using sex or gender in an Act.

The position taken was that using the word sex excluded that male from that evidence collection room and the victims body. Not that he would choose to self exclude rather that the State is discrimination against him by providing the victim/witness a choice around who carries out the evidence collection process.

The position taken is based on the presumption that the male lacks ethics or morals not to commit assault (common or sexual). That if given the choice and legal protection to act that the male would engage in a deliberate deception and subsequently give testimony, under oath, in a Court of Law. That his witness testimony should be relied upon to obtain a criminal conviction against the accused.

@IvorCutler I don't think the issue of trans women using women's toilets is about someone BECOMING trans in order to commit a crime. It is the fact that a man who simply presents as trans would be permitted to enter the women's toilets, because what he feels inside is perceived as more important than what others can see with their eyes. So a man who wants to attack a woman can go into a women's safe space unchecked, because he says he is trans/presents as trans. If no men are permitted to enter the women's toilets, then women do not have to constantly be on their guard, or make quick decisions about who might be there specifically to hurt them and who is there to have a pee. If a man walked into the toilets dressed as a stereotypical man, I'd be out of there sharpish. But if a man walked into the toilets presenting as a woman, I would probably try to act casually, not wanting to make them feel uncomfortable. I would let my guard down - unwillingly - but I'd let it down all the same. Chances are the person is there for a pee. But how do I really know that for certain?

There is so much obfuscation on this issue

"Why are women targeting transpeople? They're not the problem!"

"Why do you think men would go to the effort of pretending to be trans just to get to women when it's so unlikely?"

"A man dressed as a woman would be abused by men in man's space!"

What can I say, to begin with we've all thought that ourselves, live and let live we thought.
Then there's the dawning realisation that...

a) Yes actually men evidently have pretended to be trans to get what they want and it does happen.
b) Some men are truly dysphoric and genuinely believe themselves 100% to be "a woman" and are in fact transwomen, but they too commit male-pattern crimes like any other male, transwomen commit the same crimes at the same rate as men.
They vast majority can also impregnate women just like any other man.
c) most men aren't in fact that fussed about a bloke in a dress standing and peeing next to them at the urinal. That's blatant hyperbole. What's wrong with safe third spaces? You get shouted down and for a suggestion as benign as that.
Then finally d) you give up. You tried being kind but you end up thinking there's just no point allowing some men but not others into any woman's space, no matter why or what for. The risks are there, they exist, TWANW, ever, never can be and never will be.

Anyway, sorry for the derail. OP I hope you have/had a nice time with your friend!

Can anyone help me I just searched trans in the search and it came up with this.
I have found out that my son likes women with men's private parts. What does that mean is he gay or curious.

Any advice

Sal

@Susu49

Sorry, her

Oh give over!