Trans issues - just sad and disappointed

[Chasingthebutterflies]

Don't know what I want to say really. Haven't properly formulated my thoughts. Just came on to talk about it. Feeling a bit sad.

I was texting a friend (a man) about the recent case of the woman raped by a man in a hospital and the hospital's denial that she couldn't have been raped because there was no man.

My friend's response - the media wants us to think that all trans men are rapists, demonising the trans community, it's disgusting, it'll be us gays next.

I'm sad because there was no concern for the woman, I'm sad because despite my trying to explain that my issue is simply people with penises wanting access to spaces that are for people with vaginas only. Nothing to do with whether they are trans or not (a biological woman who lives as a trans man still accesses a female single sex space). Because it's not a trans issue. It's a male issue. I'm sad because I don't want to have to lie to my DC and say that a man standing in front of me is a woman. I want to be able to say that he is a biological male who chooses to live as a woman. But I want to be able to say that without being labelled transphobic. Because I'm not. There's no judgment. But there is a desire for safeguarding.

Just sad. Feels bonkers. Feels like I'm living in a big game of pretend.

These things probably shouldn't really be discussed on text anyway, but it has just made me sad and concerned.

Actually the media is lying to us anyway. They have guidelines that compel them to report chosen gender rather than actual sex.

So we have reports of "women" committing sex crimes and being housed in female prisons.

We are being lied to day in, day out. Tell your friend he is a credulous fool.

I think there is a big difference between people who choose to live as a woman and still have a penis and so are a biological man to people who have fully transitioned with surgery. I'd still argue that they are not biologically a woman but neither are they an intact male anymore. Anyone with a penis should not be in female safe spaces.

Not all men are rapists. However all rapists are men. Men dont like to hear this.

It’s a misunderstanding. Males don’t understand the safety issue of this, hence why that part of your text didn’t even register with your friend, because he hasn’t had to live his life the way a woman has.
Transwomen don’t have to live their lives the way a woman has had too, which is why there will never be a undertanding. Males don’t get it on the same level females understand it.

It's surprising how openly many men now feel that they can shrug off men raping women by proclaiming discussion of male violence against women, when it involves a/the sacred caste of men, as women being bigoted.

It's very convenient men now have this (poorly disguised) anti-women facade to hide behind.

These men never cared about men raping women. And they still don't.

Also, men don’t care that men rape women.

The prison argument is tricky to convey the problem because a lot of people will automatically think the woman is a criminal so deserves what she gets, that might not be vocalised but it's the belief underlying it.

Would he have sex with a trans man eg a woman with a vagina? If not does he want to be considered as bad as a racist?

@Jonny1265

I think there is a big difference between people who choose to live as a woman and still have a penis and so are a biological man to people who have fully transitioned with surgery. I'd still argue that they are not biologically a woman but neither are they an intact male anymore. Anyone with a penis should not be in female safe spaces.

How can anyone live as woman with a penis? How fantastical.

Many men find it a personal insult when a woman mentions a rapist. It sets of a weird self protecting angry response.

Having had similar conversations with DH I know just look at him and wait for the penny to drop, the self defence to stop and for him to engage with what I have actually said.

When asked he says he has no idea why he does it, he hears me accuse him, all men etc etc. I have told him this makes him a twat and he agrees. Yet can't quite control his initial reaction.

Having said that, he definitely didn't react that way when I raised this case with him. He was gobsmacked and angry.

That is sad and I can understand your feelings, your friend has shown you who he is and he's no ally to women.

@Carbiesdreamhouse

The prison argument is tricky to convey the problem because a lot of people will automatically think the woman is a criminal so deserves what she gets, that might not be vocalised but it's the belief underlying it.

That's not specific to women in prison, for many men.

Unfortunately OP, many men just don't care. They don't care because they don't have to care. They don't have to think about these things, and tend to think this is just women overreacting, or feminists nagging about something or other. They will never understand our need for spaces away from men, for many reasons, that includes any man, however he identifies himself.

And the brave new world has told people that trans-whatever is the new 'most vulnerable person' so anyone who questions that is a big meanie.

Win win for any man who wants to shit on women from a height and be patted on the back for it. This is what we are facing.

Look up SexMatters or other women's groups who are fighting this shit. My advice is to stop being sad and find your anger, you are going to need it.

It’s rarely a good experience discussing women’s issues with a man: too many have sexist attitudes and too few are open to listening.

For many men the person with the penis will always be the one who is prioritised. That’s how we’ve got to this stage in the first place.

@Jonny1265

I think there is a big difference between people who choose to live as a woman and still have a penis and so are a biological man to people who have fully transitioned with surgery. I'd still argue that they are not biologically a woman but neither are they an intact male anymore. Anyone with a penis should not be in female safe spaces.

And how exactly are we supposed to monitor this? Checking people's underwear? Totally unworkable.

No man, whatever his level of transition should be in women's spaces. If he doesn't feel comfortable in men's spaces for whatever reason, then there should be a third space. Women should not have to move over and make room for any male. End of.

I think we need to take a more pragmatic approach and that this must include the provision of women only and men only spaces. I also think in sports there should be separate categories for transmen and transwomen.

@Mindmatters668

Also, men don’t care that men rape women.

What nonsense. Thats like saying "Women don't care that Women kill children".

@pointythings

I think we need to take a more pragmatic approach and that this must include the provision of women only and men only spaces. I also think in sports there should be separate categories for transmen and transwomen.

I don't think separate sports categories are necessary (or desirable).

"Female" and "Open" categories would function perfectly well.

Not All Men™, FitAt50, but men, as a class, tend not to be too bothered by the extremely high rates of male sexual violence and harassment against women.

@FitAt50 it's nothing like saying that. Because the scale is completely different, for starters. The number of children murdered is thankfully small, 59 in the year to March 2021 as the most recent statistics. And the majority of the perpetrators will be male. So there are a tiny number of children killed by women, it's a minuscule proportion of the female population that are child killers. In contrast, in the year to Sep 21 police recorded 63,136 rapes, and obviously those are the ones that were reported to the police, and only rape not other sexual assaults. There are a staggeringly large number of men in the UK who are rapists or sexual offenders. What's more, is that these reported rapes almost never result in a conviction, essentially meaning that rape is basically a crime that is never punished. It's endemic and very little is done to acknowledge or address it. I think that makes it reasonable to say that men as a group don't care about women being raped. If they do, they have an odd way of showing it, by doing nothing to address it.

@PearPickingPorky

Not All Men™, FitAt50, but men, as a class, tend not to be too bothered by the extremely high rates of male sexual violence and harassment against women.

Yes.

Women killing children is extremely rare and everyone thinks it’s a horrendous crime. All women who are convicted of this crime get very long sentences .

Men raping women is a very common occurrence and many if not most men don’t think it’s a crime. Most rapists are not charged and of those who are, only a tiny percentage are convicted. Most of them get very light Sentences.

So society thinks very differently about these two crimes. There’s no equivalence at all.

I absolutely agree that all trans women are being demonised for the sins of a few.

But if you want to find yourself pretty much in an echo chamber of outrage, you're in the right place.

The appalling rates of conviction for rape in this country are a national shame. But that is not a trans issue; it's a failure of policing and governance.