Trans issues - just sad and disappointed

[Chasingthebutterflies]

Don't know what I want to say really. Haven't properly formulated my thoughts. Just came on to talk about it. Feeling a bit sad.

I was texting a friend (a man) about the recent case of the woman raped by a man in a hospital and the hospital's denial that she couldn't have been raped because there was no man.

My friend's response - the media wants us to think that all trans men are rapists, demonising the trans community, it's disgusting, it'll be us gays next.

I'm sad because there was no concern for the woman, I'm sad because despite my trying to explain that my issue is simply people with penises wanting access to spaces that are for people with vaginas only. Nothing to do with whether they are trans or not (a biological woman who lives as a trans man still accesses a female single sex space). Because it's not a trans issue. It's a male issue. I'm sad because I don't want to have to lie to my DC and say that a man standing in front of me is a woman. I want to be able to say that he is a biological male who chooses to live as a woman. But I want to be able to say that without being labelled transphobic. Because I'm not. There's no judgment. But there is a desire for safeguarding.

Just sad. Feels bonkers. Feels like I'm living in a big game of pretend.

These things probably shouldn't really be discussed on text anyway, but it has just made me sad and concerned.

I’m assuming those in jail for raping men is pretty low %?

@MistyFuckingQuigley

That's enough.

@RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie

If anybody has decided to think I'm somehow anti-safeguarding or excusing rape, then you're clearly and deliberately choosing to misunderstand me.

My argument is against the people who seem to assume that all trans women are by their very nature dangerous. That attitude is as abhorrent to me, as the all men are potential rapists due to having a penis argument.

See you later, folks. Enjoy the sunshine.

Where did anyone say they were? All I saw was offending stats.

You are deliberately choosing to misunderstand me.

OK, explain it better then.
If men will attack no matter where the women are, why do TW need to be in women's spaces?

You are arguing that sex-segregation doesn't stop all attacks, therefore it's not worth keeping if it offends TW, right? If not, please say clearly what you are arguing.

My argument is against the people who seem to assume that all trans women are by their very nature dangerous. That attitude is as abhorrent to me, as the all men are potential rapists due to having a penis argument.

Literally no-one is arguing that. If you thought that, you weren't reading properly or are being dishonest.

Of course you're leaving, because you can't explain your position.

@FlibbertyGiblets

Not all men are rapists. However all rapists are men. Men dont like to hear this.

That's because it's not true.

@RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie

If anybody has decided to think I'm somehow anti-safeguarding or excusing rape, then you're clearly and deliberately choosing to misunderstand me.

My argument is against the people who seem to assume that all trans women are by their very nature dangerous. That attitude is as abhorrent to me, as the all men are potential rapists due to having a penis argument.

See you later, folks. Enjoy the sunshine.

Presumably then you don't any reason for male and females to have any separate facilities?

My argument is against the people who seem to assume that all trans women are by their very nature dangerous. That attitude is as abhorrent to me, as the all men are potential rapists due to having a penis argument.

Trans women pose the same threat as men, being that they are men.

All men are potential rapists, if there was a way of working out which men were and which men weren't going to rape someone, then please share how we tell before it happens? Or is there no way of telling, and that's why we have safeguarding?

@RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie

If anybody has decided to think I'm somehow anti-safeguarding or excusing rape, then you're clearly and deliberately choosing to misunderstand me.

My argument is against the people who seem to assume that all trans women are by their very nature dangerous. That attitude is as abhorrent to me, as the all men are potential rapists due to having a penis argument.

See you later, folks. Enjoy the sunshine.

Well, my argument is that you are assuming that ALL TW are by their very nature absolutely harmless and will never offend. That's a really strange point of view to take. In society there are bad people and good people, whether male or female. You seem to be suggesting that simply by the fact of being trans, a person becomes part of a sacred caste who are NEVER dangerous. You are not applying normal safeguards that are applied to the whole population, without question usually, to a very specific group of people. Why? Why are TW exempt from normal safeguards that apply to male bodied people?

My argument is against the people who seem to assume that all trans women are by their very nature dangerous. That attitude is as abhorrent to me, as the all men are potential rapists due to having a penis argument.

Men commit 96% of sex crimes, that's a fact an uncomfortable one for men but still a fact. Women and girls make up 84% of the victims of sex crimes.

Women are entitled to (or should be) safety, privacy and dignity and to achieve that single sex spaces are there to exclude the sex class that commit 96% of the sex crimes.

And now my posts are being deleted because women aren't allowed opinions. Of course, silly me.

If that's the argument, then all women are potential shoplifters/stranglers/poisoners/abusers etc.

Enjoy the sunshine.

@ASkyPaintedGold
Of course I'm not assuming that, but go ahead and assume that's what I'm assuming if it helps.

@RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie

If that's the argument, then all women are potential shoplifters/stranglers/poisoners/abusers etc.

Enjoy the sunshine.

There is no sacred caste you mean?

Yes, yes that is true.

@PearPickingPorky

Not All Men™, FitAt50, but men, as a class, tend not to be too bothered by the extremely high rates of male sexual violence and harassment against women.

I think this is exactly right. Any of the men I've tried to have a conversation with about male violence enacted against women ALWAYS counter with things like the high level of male-on-male violence in big cities (rates of knife crime etc).

When I've said that many women feel unsafe walking home alone at night, they further counter by saying that men feel just as unsafe walking alone on the streets after dark. There's no acknowledgement of the fact that the number of MEN committing violent acts far, FAR outstrips the rate of women committing similar acts.

Similarly, whenever I've tried to talk to men about domestic violence, I've had a lot of the old 'women commit domestic violence too' response - again, completely ignoring and refusing to acknowledge the fact that female rates of domestic violence perpetration is much smaller when compared to male rates.

I've heard a lot of 'there are just bad people in all walks of life - male AND female', seemingly used as some sort of justification for the massive rates of male-on-female violence.

@RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie

I absolutely agree that all trans women are being demonised for the sins of a few.

But if you want to find yourself pretty much in an echo chamber of outrage, you're in the right place.

They aren’t being demonised at all. That is the problem: when women talk about fear of male bodies, which are much stronger and capable of rape, and when women ask for safe spaces from those male bodies so they can relax for five fucking minutes, the conversation gets made all about men’s feelings. Boo hoo if it hurts a serial killer’s feelings to discuss the fact that he was biologically male when he murdered an old lady. Boo hoo if a 6ft tall transwoman with a penis feels excluded from a female-only rape support group. This ISN’T about transwomen’s feelings, it’s about women’s need for safe spaces from men so that women can feel safe.

Transwomen do not accept that biological women have any right to feelings of their own, which is odd given that transwomen are so obsessed with their own feelings.

@RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie

If that's the argument, then all women are potential shoplifters/stranglers/poisoners/abusers etc.

Enjoy the sunshine.

I'm confused - are all shoplifters women? If not then that's not the same argument is it, you silly sausage! Oh dear... the logic is not strong with this one!

You could try actually engaging with an argument that's actually been made ? So far you mainly seem to have been.... making them up yourself?

I am fucking sick of this. Sick and tired of women yet again being put in harm's way, shut down and told to be kind and that men's feelings are more important. This case is a direct result of what TRAs have been campaigning for.

Women are women.
Men are men.
Transwomen are transwomen.
Transmen are transmen.

If TRAs accepted this and would campaign for third spaces I would fully support them. But they don't and when confronted with facts like this fucking abhorrent case they try to gaslight you, so instead I can only assume they are misogynistic homophobes.

Yes @Thewindwhispers. I'm not excluding transwomen from women's spaces because they are trans, I honestly don't give a fuck how they identify. I'm excluding them because they are men, sorry, male bodied. Most men don't have a problem with this, and any who do are very fucking suspect.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/part/1/crossheading/rape#:~:text=1Rape,reasonably%20believe%20that%20B%20consents.

@RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie

If that's the argument, then all women are potential shoplifters/stranglers/poisoners/abusers etc.

Enjoy the sunshine.

When I walk into Boots the shop is hoping that I’m a bona fide customer, and statistically I probably am. But they also have to guard against the possibility that I’m a shoplifter because experience tells them a large minority of visitors pinch stuff. They don’t know me, and they don’t know which category I fall into. So I’m going to be subject to cctv and other security measures like everyone else.

Not dissimilar to the way risk individual men pose to women is unknown.

Most of us recognise that to strangers we aren’t distinguishable from miscreants and we aren’t offended by those strangers acting accordingly. As far as gotchas go, this isn’t very strong.

Why do they do the last line thing, as if they have done a mike drop and walked off stage?

Very narcissistic to think we have all queued up and stood and waited for this important speech.

Honestly. Enjoy the sunshine yourself, if you ever make it out of your nan's basement.

Anyone managed to explain yet how being in a space away from men protects trans women from men but not biologically female women?

Most of us recognise that to strangers we aren’t distinguishable from miscreants and we aren’t offended by those strangers acting accordingly. As far as gotchas go, this isn’t very strong.

The supposed 'gotchas' never are. Their argument is akin to emotional blackmail all based on their feelings (no regard or consideration for anyone else's feelings of course), full of contradictions and when all else fails outright threats and abuse.