Trans issues - just sad and disappointed

[Chasingthebutterflies]

Don't know what I want to say really. Haven't properly formulated my thoughts. Just came on to talk about it. Feeling a bit sad.

I was texting a friend (a man) about the recent case of the woman raped by a man in a hospital and the hospital's denial that she couldn't have been raped because there was no man.

My friend's response - the media wants us to think that all trans men are rapists, demonising the trans community, it's disgusting, it'll be us gays next.

I'm sad because there was no concern for the woman, I'm sad because despite my trying to explain that my issue is simply people with penises wanting access to spaces that are for people with vaginas only. Nothing to do with whether they are trans or not (a biological woman who lives as a trans man still accesses a female single sex space). Because it's not a trans issue. It's a male issue. I'm sad because I don't want to have to lie to my DC and say that a man standing in front of me is a woman. I want to be able to say that he is a biological male who chooses to live as a woman. But I want to be able to say that without being labelled transphobic. Because I'm not. There's no judgment. But there is a desire for safeguarding.

Just sad. Feels bonkers. Feels like I'm living in a big game of pretend.

These things probably shouldn't really be discussed on text anyway, but it has just made me sad and concerned.

@Rainbowsandstorms

My personal feelings are that in areas where single sex spaces have been created for the safety of women these need to persist in the name of safety. Trans rights do not trump the need for safe single sex spaces such as changing rooms, hospital wards, prisons etc. I say this as someone who has no judgement around anyone being trans. Somewhere there is a balance between respect and lack of discrimination against trans people while also continuing to protect women. I had this conversation with my husband yesterday and he firmly agreed.

This I agree with. I think you summed it up nicely. No need to dismiss transpeople and say they don't exist, but a need to protect everyone.

For this case I'm shocked at the police work. How dare they dismiss the victim.

@Whatsnewpussyhat

Every single person that goes along with the absurdity that a man can be a woman is responsible for this bullshit.

A man took a gold medal from a woman who was the fastest female swimmer because his special feelings of ladyness mattered more than her being allowed fair competition. He was allowed to do whatever he fucking wants because he's a man. The second he said, 'I'm a woman', everyone else's brains fell out and must pretend that this privileged, straight, white man is one of the most oppressed people on the fucking planet.

A man raped a woman in hospital and the hospital told police it couldn't have happened because the man said he was a woman. The victim called a liar and gaslit for knowing her rapist was a man.

A serial killer in America who had butchered many women during his life and the headlines all called him a woman.

Apparently 61% of young PEOPLE are embarrassed by their periods and 2 PEOPLE a day die of cervical cancer.
The words women and girls being disconnected from our biology whilst using 'woman' for reporting male serial killers, sex offenders and paedophiles.

Humans cannot change sex. If you think it's ok for women to be forced to validate male identities and step aside whilst men appropriate female oppression, you might want to ask yourself why you are so willing to default to men. Why you think male feelings matter most. Why men who claim to have a 'gender identity' should be pandered to at the expense of an entire sex class?

Well said. I agree with all of this.

Thank you

@LizDoingTheCanCan

If you don't like being called transphobic, then perhaps you should consider your views. You're no different from the people that spread hate and fear against gay people in the 80s, using your twisted interpretation of facts to demonise people who are different from you.

We're far stronger united than we are divided. Please think about what you are trying to achieve.

Could you repeat that, with some explanation of what it is you see as transphobic?

As it stands that post is something of a non sequitur, has bugger all to do with any post before it.

@samphirethestickerist I think they're referring to the posts stating trans doesn't exist and transwomen are men no matter what they identify as. Thankfully some of those posts seem to have been removed.

@LizDoingTheCanCan

(And the hospital rape case is abhorrent. But stereotyping a whole group based on the actions of one person, that's hateful.)

What?

The whole point of that is that ONE MAN did it and got away with it, was hidden by the hospital trust,.BECAUSE HE SAID HE WAS A WOMAN!

A rape occurred.
On a single sex ward.
One of those things that never happens
The hospital covered it up and caused additional harm mental health issues for the victim
Because they had swallowed the crap you are spouting.

Again, we have safeguarding. Men do not have access to single sex female spaces because some men do harm to women. That is ALL MEN, because if the actions of a few men.

Are you arguing that all safeguarding is unfair?

And, yet again, what is the difference between a transwoman and any other man?

If you cannot answer that the you are only telling us that you don't care about the safety of women and girls.

@LizDoingTheCanCan

If you don't like being called transphobic, then perhaps you should consider your views. You're no different from the people that spread hate and fear against gay people in the 80s, using your twisted interpretation of facts to demonise people who are different from you.

We're far stronger united than we are divided. Please think about what you are trying to achieve.

What?!? You're the ones that have a twisted interpretation of facts!!!

HUMANS CAN'T CHANGE SEX

You're the ones who are trying to bully people into not being able to state facts.

Think about what you're trying to achieve here? Reality exists and will not bend to save the feelings of dysphoric males.

[quote ToCaden]@samphirethestickerist I think they're referring to the posts stating trans doesn't exist and transwomen are men no matter what they identify as. Thankfully some of those posts seem to have been removed.[/quote]
Transwomen are male. Human beings cannot change sex.

That's the point.

The problem isn’t trans people it’s predatory males (some of which will be trans or claim to be) and gender identity ideology which wants us to accept trans women as literal women. Women thrown under the bus as usual.

@Chasingthebutterflies

Don't know what I want to say really. Haven't properly formulated my thoughts. Just came on to talk about it. Feeling a bit sad.

I was texting a friend (a man) about the recent case of the woman raped by a man in a hospital and the hospital's denial that she couldn't have been raped because there was no man.

My friend's response - the media wants us to think that all trans men are rapists, demonising the trans community, it's disgusting, it'll be us gays next.

I'm sad because there was no concern for the woman, I'm sad because despite my trying to explain that my issue is simply people with penises wanting access to spaces that are for people with vaginas only. Nothing to do with whether they are trans or not (a biological woman who lives as a trans man still accesses a female single sex space). Because it's not a trans issue. It's a male issue. I'm sad because I don't want to have to lie to my DC and say that a man standing in front of me is a woman. I want to be able to say that he is a biological male who chooses to live as a woman. But I want to be able to say that without being labelled transphobic. Because I'm not. There's no judgment. But there is a desire for safeguarding.

Just sad. Feels bonkers. Feels like I'm living in a big game of pretend.

These things probably shouldn't really be discussed on text anyway, but it has just made me sad and concerned.

Sorry for quoting your while OP but does your friend know that a trans man is in fact a woman that identifies as a male. So can't rape anyone.

What he is thinking about is trans women, who are males, most of whom keep their penises.

And who pose the same risk to females as any male.

Sometimes you have to be direct.

@LizDoingTheCanCan

If you don't like being called transphobic, then perhaps you should consider your views. You're no different from the people that spread hate and fear against gay people in the 80s, using your twisted interpretation of facts to demonise people who are different from you.

We're far stronger united than we are divided. Please think about what you are trying to achieve.

"Gay people in the 80s" were allowed to say they are same-sex attracted.

Stonewall now refuse to use this as a definition of 'gay', and say that mixed-sex couples can claim 'being gay' as a protected characteristic if either the male or female person feels a certain way.

Who are the homophobes?

The dishonesty on here is astounding, but it's all they have.

They can't address the actual points made, so they have to lie and say that believing that 'sex exists and sometimes matters' means that you .... hate gay people? Even if you are gay? and don't hate anyone?
I don't know, because they can't ever explain the logic. They just plop, say 'transphobes!' and run off, unable to defend their male supremacist beliefs.

Again, if you think criticising a hospital policy supposedly designed to keep a group of vulnerable people safe is 'stereotyping a group of people', you have not in the slightest way understood anything that's been said. Or safeguarding. Or risk, or class, or privilege, or oppression.

@ToCaden

Women can (I do agree it happens less than men, but does happen.)

The UK definition of rape is penatration of a anus or vagina by penis or another object.

No. Penetration by object is sexual assault. Rape is only ever penetration by penis.

@LizDoingTheCanCan

(And the hospital rape case is abhorrent. But stereotyping a whole group based on the actions of one person, that's hateful.)

Stereotyping men as a group is hateful? That's just basic safeguarding. I'm not allowed to just wander into my child's school on a whim because I am an adult and some adults harm children. Do I take this personally? No, of course not, because I understand that a child's safety is more important than my feelings.

I think most men ( however they identify) won't take it personally that women don't feel safe on mixed sex wards. If they do take it personally I'd have to question their motives to be honest.

@ToCaden

Women can (I do agree it happens less than men, but does happen.)

The UK definition of rape is penatration of a anus or vagina by penis or another object.

No this is wrong. Rape can only be carried out with a penis under UK law. It is a male crime.

As long as a trans woman has a penis he will always be a man to me. If he has gender reassignment to show his commitment to being a woman I will treat her as such.
As an aside, when trans women say that they have always felt like or identified as a woman....how can they? A man has no idea what it feels like to be an actual living breathing woman with periods and female anatomy. I could not for one minute claim to know how a man with a penis and loads of testosterone feels like.

@TheWeeDonkey

That is sad and I can understand your feelings, your friend has shown you who he is and he's no ally to women.

I think that there has always been an idea that a Gay men are somehow our allies but it’s not necessarily true I know I put up with behaviour from Gay male friends that would have me drop a straight male friend immediately in the past

I think the demonisation of trans women is a huge issue. The reality is that there are some men who are criminals and abusive, and that doesn't change if they change gender. However, the vast majority are not.

Trans women suffer enormously from being forced into male only spaces, whether in prison, hospital or wherever.

All places should be safe. Prisons should be safe for every prisoner regardless of who else is there, as should hospitals. The failure is anyone getting raped or abused in these places, regardless of their gender, the gender of their attacker or anything else. Then it would be a non-issue.

I think we are not addressing the right problem.

@LizDoingTheCanCan

(And the hospital rape case is abhorrent. But stereotyping a whole group based on the actions of one person, that's hateful.)

That’s not what is happening

I don’t think that Transwomen are more or less of a threat to me than anyone who was born Male. The simple fact is that if Transwomen weren’t allowed into female only spaces firstly this attack couldn’t have happened and secondly it wouldn’t have taken a year of denial that such an incident was even possible before it was properly investigated.

@CatherinedeBourgh

I think the demonisation of trans women is a huge issue. The reality is that there are some men who are criminals and abusive, and that doesn't change if they change gender. However, the vast majority are not.

Trans women suffer enormously from being forced into male only spaces, whether in prison, hospital or wherever.

All places should be safe. Prisons should be safe for every prisoner regardless of who else is there, as should hospitals. The failure is anyone getting raped or abused in these places, regardless of their gender, the gender of their attacker or anything else. Then it would be a non-issue.

I think we are not addressing the right problem.

And who is doing the majority of attacking and all of the raping? Is it men or is it women? Why are you pretending that we don't know what the problem is? We do, it's men having access to women's spaces. Gender doesn't come into it just like religion doesn't. Both belief systems based on a falsehood.

Sad? I'm steaming mad.
I am absolutely pig sick of women being denied even the most basic humanity while men's every feeling, whim or fetish is indulged, with our politicians not only facilitating but encouraging it!

Sex segregation in certain circs (prison etc) was a quick and effective way of giving a better level of safety to women. Why do you think this needs to be reversed, @CatherinedeBourgh ? It has been reversed bit by bit, so many spaces that were single-sex are 'secretly' mixed sex, and we are seeing the consequences of that.

Would you campaign for third spaces? What other solution do you see for protecting people from male violence?

@RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie

The appalling rates of conviction for rape in this country are a national shame. But that is not a trans issue; it's a failure of policing and governance.

This case very much is a trans issue it is a direct result of what Trans Activists and Gender Ideologists have demanded, as are the cases that have occurred in the female prison estate where Transwomen - males - have raped and sexually assaulted female inmates.

This is the inevitable result of what all those who parrot Transwomen are women, Self-id of Gender, now have fought for and are fighting for - the removal of safety, dignity and privacy for women and girls, own it and you can't say you weren't warned of the consequences for women and girls.

No doubt those who push this agenda will do all the emotional hand-wringing and weeping over VAWG, empty, rhetoric worth nothing they are creating the very scenarios for VAWG to increase and continue unabated, their hypocrisy is repellent, they couldn't give a flying fuck for women and girls.

I wasn't speaking about one case though.