Maya Forstater Tribunal March 2022- Thread 3

[Whatamesssss]

Thread one, here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4498167-Maya-Forstater-hearing-starts-Monday

Thread two, here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4505825-Maya-Forstater-Tribunal-March-2022-Thread-2?pg=1

@yourhairiswinterfire

Their credibility is plummeting.

Sink Tank.

🤣

@InvisibleDragon

Anyone know why Masood Ahmed is a respondent as well as a witness? Is that because he was the senior leader who made the final decision about Maya's employment?

What are the potential implications for him if Maya wins?

I think it’s because he was the final decision maker.

Masood is, like the others, a witness representing the organisations position. Additionally he will be asked to explain his decision not to employ MF or offer to extend her VF.

Thank you Maya for all you have done.

And thank Ben Cooper QC too. He is awesome.

I've emailed them 3 times now and still nothing, not in spam either

Try it from a different email, you should have had it.

I emailed at about 2 this afternoon and it came 2 hours later.

Thank you Embarrassing

Thanks @materialrealitygirl I'll try that (I'd wanted to avoid using my work email account if I could).

"Anyone know why Masood Ahmed is a respondent as well as a witness? Is that because he was the senior leader who made the final decision about Maya's employment?"

• when we first filed the claim it was against CGDE the UK org - in their response they said "The Respondent contends that it is not the correct respondent to the Claimant’s claims. Conduct relied on by the Claimant as acts of discrimination, harassment and victimisation were allegedly committed not by the Respondent but by a separate entity, Center for Global Development based in Washington DC (“CGD”) and/or individuals employed or engaged by CGD."

So we had to add CGD and Masood to the claim.

If any one is having trouble getting a login you can DM me (I'm more responsive on Twitter than here)

__

All the love has been conveyed to Ben

@MForstater
Maya, I do hope Ben is going to take that Quantum of Solace (or whatever they're called) report apart piece by piece.

[quote BoreOfWhabylon]@MForstater
Maya, I do hope Ben is going to take that Quantum of Solace (or whatever they're called) report apart piece by piece.[/quote]
Me too. I want the world to see how important it is to get correct legal advice, not misleading, half baked nonsense.

God that QI report. It's so shoddy. They do have points to make but it's buried in a load of flim flam, and surely that discussion of the Equality Act is simply incorrect? The GRA was the first Act in the world to provide for gender transition without surgery. The Equality Act does demedicalise by including those intending to undergo reassignment even if they haven't done anything about it, but I'm ot aware that that was a recent change- wasn't that always the case?

Ombudsperson must be the clumsiest, ugliest word in existence. If you don't want to use something as sexually specific as ombudsman, which I guess I understand in the circumstances, ombud is apparently equivalent in meaning and a lot more elegant.

The relevant section of the Equality Act is section 7(1):

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/7

If you press the buttons Latest available (Revised) and Original (As enacted) you can see there had been no change.

Will Allison’s case be able to be watched? I am enjoying Ben’s work. The unraveling and rebuilding. And he simply keeps going. And is so calm and calming while we are sitting on the edge of our seats!!!

Thank you Tabby.

My goodness that QI report is just awfully biased. I don't think they understand the difference between a blog and a peer reviewed paper. I can't believe they got a consultancy in to do a report on Maya.
Point e)ii in the image attached from the report is very draconian. You are not allowed to say transwomen are not women! (No mention that you can't say transmen are not men).

@nauticant

The relevant section of the Equality Act is section 7(1):

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/7

If you press the buttons Latest available (Revised) and Original (As enacted) you can see there had been no change.

Wow so the independent consultancy they brought in has misrepresented the UK Equality Act.

American here. That QI report is talking out of it’s ass. Just to clarify, US companies are not at all able to hire and fire at will. We have the Civil Rights Act.

Shady shit like this happens, but it’s against the law. Washington and California especially are so “enlightened” it hurts.

Tabbycat you are a rockstar! Your poor little fingers must be bloody nubs. Thank you so much.

Ben Cooper is savage! Now I know why they always say #No Debate. Poor things don’t have a clue what they are talking about, yikes.

Now, I’m taking my huge ego and trying to fit through the door.

www.eeoc.gov/statutes/laws-enforced-eeoc

Been catching up, been out today. I found today so grim, my heart goes out to Maya - I cannot imagine how stressful it must have been. Was just thinking I hope Emma Barnett has Maya on Woman's Hour after this is over, after the aggressive interview she did before the Tribunal started. I'd like to see the balance redressed. In awe at Maya's strength and persistence.

Its not it’s.

Maya, you must be pleased with how everything is going! Count me in as another member of the BC fan club.

@FemaleAndLearning

Thank you Tabby.

My goodness that QI report is just awfully biased. I don't think they understand the difference between a blog and a peer reviewed paper. I can't believe they got a consultancy in to do a report on Maya.
Point e)ii in the image attached from the report is very draconian. You are not allowed to say transwomen are not women! (No mention that you can't say transmen are not men).

It seems that Quantum Impact experienced considerable difficulty in understanding a wide range of items from law, to culture, to comprehension of some items, to acceptable HR practice in a multinational organisation etc.

Perhaps they ran out of colleagues who were chairs of vaguely relevant sounding topics in their universities and whom they could tap up for a soundbite in exchange for a Lindt reindeer or rabbit (depending on the season)?

@Helleofabore

Will Allison’s case be able to be watched? I am enjoying Ben’s work. The unraveling and rebuilding. And he simply keeps going. And is so calm and calming while we are sitting on the edge of our seats!!!

Surely RMW will be eager to demonstrate the legal prowess that shores up the reputation of the co-author of the sole text in a relevant area.

If the objective of the book was to increase understanding of the law in this area, it must be judged an abject failure. Even a reader with little prior knowledge will be struck by the regularity with which the authors simply give up on the task of analysis.

legalfeminist.org.uk/2021/09/02/a-practical-guide/

@MForstater

Oh wow thread 3!

These are really good :)

In answer to Q earlier on, employment tribunals don't record proceedings so no transcript is possible.

The live tweets and the records here are invaluable! #Sunlight

Just highlighting @MForstater

@MForstater

"Anyone know why Masood Ahmed is a respondent as well as a witness? Is that because he was the senior leader who made the final decision about Maya's employment?"

• when we first filed the claim it was against CGDE the UK org - in their response they said "The Respondent contends that it is not the correct respondent to the Claimant’s claims. Conduct relied on by the Claimant as acts of discrimination, harassment and victimisation were allegedly committed not by the Respondent but by a separate entity, Center for Global Development based in Washington DC (“CGD”) and/or individuals employed or engaged by CGD."

So we had to add CGD and Masood to the claim.

If any one is having trouble getting a login you can DM me (I'm more responsive on Twitter than here)

__

All the love has been conveyed to Ben

Just highlighting @MForstater

iSurely RMW will be eager to demonstrate the legal prowess

Very much looking forward to observing said legal prowess if possible.

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone contributing. Particular thanks to @MForstater for taking the fight to CGD and @tabbycatstripy for transcription. I teach so I’m catching up at breaks / lunch / after school, and having the detail is invaluable.

While I think volunteer transcription is likely a non-starter, I’d happily contribute to the costs of official transcription once the case is over.

I’m also minded to think of the P&O crisis today. There appears to be a number of internationally owned companies who simply do not respect UK employment law. We need a strong response from the government on this. Time for another email to my local MP I think.

I was talking to someone about the tribunal and it was only when I said it that I realised we were talking about a crowdfunded action that led to a first ET, a successful appeal of that ruling, and we now discussing the live broadcast of the ET Mark 2 and the commentary on Mumsnet having had the assistance of ready access to the evidence bundles.

What a world. The legal system is so up to date in some ways, so bone achingly slow and behind the time in others.

Please, how do I access a log in?