Maya Forstater Tribunal March 2022- Thread 3

[Whatamesssss]

Thread one, here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4498167-Maya-Forstater-hearing-starts-Monday

Thread two, here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4505825-Maya-Forstater-Tribunal-March-2022-Thread-2?pg=1

[quote EmbarrassingHadrosaurus]Don't talk to her about it because she knows her stuff and is cleverer than us.

Quite why Quantum Impact's personnel assumed that Maya, a VF in a leading think tank, would, by default, know less than they did given that they had to get up to speed on the issues (and failed) is a question for the ages.

And I can not get over the fact that for £4K all in, they must have been soliciting external opinions on the level of reckons (or even chinny reckons).

CGD paid £4K and got reckons sent to them.

[/quote] "be cautious about getting pulled into the debate" - I assume because you'll probably agree with her!

[quote EmbarrassingHadrosaurus]Don't talk to her about it because she knows her stuff and is cleverer than us.

Quite why Quantum Impact's personnel assumed that Maya, a VF in a leading think tank, would, by default, know less than they did given that they had to get up to speed on the issues (and failed) is a question for the ages.

And I can not get over the fact that for £4K all in, they must have been soliciting external opinions on the level of reckons (or even chinny reckons).

CGD paid £4K and got reckons sent to them.

[/quote] Astonishing isn't it! "There's a letter to the editor that she retweeted that covers everything I would have said . . . and does so more more eloquently and with more evidence than I would be able to do"

That's QI, the external Equality and Diversity expert consultants saying that!?

@VestofAbsurdity

It's an all round shit show of incompetence from CGD and QI, they can't possibly be thinking they're doing/have done a good job here, they all look totally unprofessional and, quite frankly, stupid.

It may be a shit show under the lens of..logic..or standards of fairness...but to them, logic and standards of fairness derive from western oppressors and must be thrown out as they are the 'master's tools'. Berkeley told them so.

In their bubble, they're on the right side of history. It's Maya, who hasn't taken a gender course, donchaknow. Maya, whose posts are academically shoddy but don't engage because she knows her argument well (!)

C Huang (ex-CGD) is a recent hire into the US government (HSS). All these amplifiers, will tend to fail upwards. We're just getting a poke around the innards of institutional capture.

just seen this on twitter - brilliant twitter.com/maxpell123/status/1505100868605120522?s=21

[quote dianebrewster]just seen this on twitter - brilliant twitter.com/maxpell123/status/1505100868605120522?s=21[/quote]
Bravo to Max.

Somewhere in there—perhaps around the discussion of the coordinated amplification technique or EM's ubiquitous absence that somehow expresses complete opposition to the continuation of the VF—I would like to see the Mob song from Beauty and the Beast because We don't like what we don't understand seems to sum it up.

We don't like
What we don't understand
In fact it scares us
…

The Szarbo report seems fairly sensible and impartial. But it would have been harder to follow up her recommendations (especially the bit about trying to get the offended parties to understand the context & maya's views) than just dropping maya.

Seems to me that CGD has catastrophically misjudged the level of negative PR that this case has brought. But there again, they have consistently misjudged the whole situation.

[quote dianebrewster]just seen this on twitter - brilliant twitter.com/maxpell123/status/1505100868605120522?s=21[/quote]

Berkeley told them so.

Did you write that knowing that Farah Mahesri who co-founded Quantum Impact is Berkeley educated ThrowawayBerna? (Perhaps that should be indoctrinated.)

She's been a journalist (apparently) and she's Berkeley educated and yet she can't write a coherent sentence in an important email to client.

I didn't know that (journalist). Most of the stuff I've seen after a quick Google is that she is an experienced international development expert with more than 15 years of experience and specialities that include Decolonizing & Impact | Aid Effectiveness | Strategy Consulting. She also offers executive coaching.

medium.com/@kidastercal/using-a-decolonizing-framework-to-achieve-our-collective-liberation-da84459e8e25

The bits about her past work history are interesting as to how she's arrived at a place where they founded a non-profit to help other non-profits.

I started by thinking more at the policy level – working for the lobbying and advocacy arm of the UN Foundation and engaging with Congressional leaders to support policy and funding initiatives. Tiring quickly of the politics involved in working on the Hill, I moved to working for large, global social impact organizations helping to manage multi-million dollar programs, enter new markets and design new portfolios. I also worked closely with funders to bring in millions annually in grant proposals….

I have a feeling that moving away from the politics of Washington hasn't quite panned out.

www.fnmadvising.com./

There's a research and articles section of her site but that's a bit light on publications so perhaps she hasn't filled that out much.

It's interesting to see that while DE&I is generally understood to refer to Diversity, Equity, & Inclusion, when FM got involved it transformed into Decolonizing, Equity, and Impact.

@Rainbowshit

They haven't got the balance between thinking and tanking right have they!

Yes, nauticant
Berkeley, Evergreen, whatever.

@Pluvia

She's been a journalist (apparently) and she's Berkeley educated and yet she can't write a coherent sentence in an important email to client.

Not got a very inquiring mind for a journalist.

Don't talk to her about it because she knows her stuff and is cleverer than us.

This is the thing. All this process has shown what amazing research skills Maya has. Not only does she know the stuff but she has been feeding us the readers all the material (emails, letters) to help us understand the more obscure or confusing questions and comments in the courtroom. Her legal team is great, but I can't help but feel that Maya must have done a lot of the preparation work herself.

If I ever needed (and could afford) a visiting follow or consultant, Maya would be extremely high in my choices. No wonder CGD need to defend their decision.

Ben is a WORIADS.

Weapon of Ridiculous Ideology-Assassinating Destruction, Sublimely.

@Pluvia

They had someone who knew what she was talking about in Miss Szabo — and they decided that rather than take EM and colleagues in hand and tell them to stop harassing MF for her beliefs, they would ignore Miss Szabo's advice and go with the QI 'experts'. Expensive learning curve.

Yep. That part is very telling.

This argument is so close to the Rachel Dolezal argument, no? The one that, according to the folk at CGD cannot be spoken of?

I've caught up! Huzzah - I've been trying to catch up in evenings but have been 2 days behind since... well the beginning 😂

Well done Maya - you have been consistent, professional and respectful throughout this whole experience. As another poster said, you're nails.

Thanks for all the transcribing - it's been so helpful to follow.

It is so very good to see the truth of Maya's conduct - which has been respectful, polite and appropriate - emerging at the tribunal hearing, and how it differs so very much from the propoganda put round about her and 'amplified' courtesy of sloppy QI and then Twitter.

I'm also impressed by Maya's command of the research material and her forensic attention to detail within the big picture.

I'll be watching more history being made tomorrow morning. Win or lose at first tier, Maya is achieving something of huge importance here.

I have found this out about transcription services available:
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1060085/EX107_GN_0422v2.pdf

It has costs in for court approved transcription services. I presume it would need to be arranged in advance (because the hearing isn't automatically recorded) but there would seem to be no problem in principle with asking if parts of Allison Bailey vs Stonewall could be transcripted if we could raise the money.

We are so very lucky to have Maya. Not only because she has the courage to do this, but because she has been so disciplined in how she has expresses her beliefs. She has never lost her cool, never been disrespectful, been pin point accurate in her choice of words. The worst they have been able to throw at her is "nonsense on stilts" (it was) "part time cross dresser" (he is and refers to himself as such" and "mens feelings have no basis is reality" (she didn't say that, she said material reality, and feelings by definition are intangible, they have no physical manifestation).

All they have left is to scold her about her "tone", which is clearly misogynistic.

I agree totally about Maya's intellectual abilities. I wondered though if her credentials were being questioned on Friday when Olivia Dobson (CGD QC) asked Masood Ahmed whether they'd ever before hired someone without postgraduate qualifications.

Maya's comment this morning.

This is the sum total of newspaper coverage of my case so far. [Screenshot of Darlington and Stockton Times a week ago]

I trust the dam will break at some point.

In the meantime, for all the news and analysis that's not fit to print: visit Mumsnet

mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4507443-Maya-Forstater-Tribunal-March-2022-Thread-3

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1505445879154683904

Meanwhile, there's a musical, animations and discussion here.

I have to wonder if CGD was banking on the lack of coverage because it's similar to ET1.