Maya Forstater Tribunal March 2022- Thread 3

[Whatamesssss]

Thread one, here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4498167-Maya-Forstater-hearing-starts-Monday

Thread two, here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4505825-Maya-Forstater-Tribunal-March-2022-Thread-2?pg=1

@BIWI

Those animations are amazing!

Apparently it's an app so anyone can do it (I will say here and now that I have no talent for visuals).

objection.lol/

(Why didn't I acquire skills in useful stuff like this rather than the stuff I do have.)

Also LarissaFeodorovna, when as a witness you're clearly losing a point, you should think very carefully about doubling down. Sometimes a "well, that's simply how I see it although I understand others see if differently" can be far less damaging to your side, and far less uncomfortable to you, than blundering on and being made to look like a oncompromsing zealot. Unreasonable is a terrible look in court.

@nauticant

Also LarissaFeodorovna, when as a witness you're clearly losing a point, you should think very carefully about doubling down. Sometimes a "well, that's simply how I see it although I understand others see if differently" can be far less damaging to your side, and far less uncomfortable to you, than blundering on and being made to look like a oncompromsing zealot. Unreasonable is a terrible look in court.

Yes, blundering on is a terrible no-no. Decide what. you're going to say, say it, and then stop.

But as I said, I've never been in the position where I had something to hide, because I wouldn't put anything in a Court report that didn't correspond to some kind of objective reality. If the data has shortcomings I would generally have identified and stated those already. If I had genuinely missed something that I should have spotted, then I would absolutely accept that if asked.

In fact, as with life in general, if you've made a massive cock-up, it's invariably less painful if you just admit it and apologise rather than dig in and try to bluff it out.

[quote WinterTrees]I saw this addition this morning. I'm sure the anime-loving TRAs are enjoying it too

twitter.com/pitopishi/status/1504999134067326987[/quote]
I wish I knew how to get these animations on mumsnet for those who can’t see Twitter.

To me, this is up there with “he’s dead, Ben, you can stop,” and “it would unkind of me to ask how that panned out,” and “watching Kasparov playing chess against a bucket of potato peelings.”

Maya was sublime with that one word.

Interest that Sarah of the Farah and Sarah Quantum Impact people has wiped QI from her LinkedIn profile. Poor old Farah has currently kept it in, wonder for how long.

The email they wrote to their client is just so garbled and poorly worded (never mind the actual sentiments they are presenting).

twitter.com/mforstater/status/1504494512151969796?s=21

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus
Thank you so much for that video Harrop vs KJK

And Thank you so much to all the transkribers of this case. My jaw is on the floor!

I wish I knew how to get these animations on mumsnet for those who can’t see Twitter.

Preferred voice artists?

Cumberbatch or Damian Lewis for Ben Cooper
Simon Callow for Judge Glennie
Maya as herself
Sharon Small as AG

Francis Barber as the EM figure

Not sure if this link will work, @EmbarrassingHadrosaurus?

Animated BC et al

@Zeugma

Not sure if this link will work, *@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus*?

Animated BC et al

The bold bit was from ShagMeRiggins who wondered how to link to the animation directly for those who don't see them on Twitter.

I've seen the animations and was daydreaming about who would be good voice artists for them.

Ah right, sorry! Ignore me. Link might work for those not on Twitter, though.

Delurking to thank everyone who transcribed, commented and explained.

[quote Tootsweets23]Interest that Sarah of the Farah and Sarah Quantum Impact people has wiped QI from her LinkedIn profile. Poor old Farah has currently kept it in, wonder for how long.

The email they wrote to their client is just so garbled and poorly worded (never mind the actual sentiments they are presenting).

twitter.com/mforstater/status/1504494512151969796?s=21[/quote]
Good grief, did they not proof read that for all the typos and grammatical errors? If communication is something they prize, they're really crap at it.

Not to mention the dreadful and concerning content. Don't talk to her about it because she knows her stuff and is cleverer than us.

Surely to god no one in their right mind would adopt the advice of people who fully admit, upfront, that they don't know what they're talking about, don't want get involved in the detail, and don't want you to either, and want everyone to hide as much as possible.

Who would buy a service off someone who so confidently promotes their incompetence??

Don't talk to her about it because she knows her stuff and is cleverer than us.

Quite why Quantum Impact's personnel assumed that Maya, a VF in a leading think tank, would, by default, know less than they did given that they had to get up to speed on the issues (and failed) is a question for the ages.

And I can not get over the fact that for £4K all in, they must have been soliciting external opinions on the level of reckons (or even chinny reckons).

CGD paid £4K and got reckons sent to them.

"We conferred with colleagues with more legal expertise in HR issues and transgender issues overall to make sure we weren't missing anything".

Oh dear.

Refund?

@Datun

"We conferred with colleagues with more legal expertise in HR issues and transgender issues overall to make sure we weren't missing anything".

Oh dear.

Refund?

I don't think it would have been to hard to find someone with more legal expertise than they possessed of the situation in the UK. The question is if they knew enough of the basics to know whether the expertise was sufficient or accurate, IYSWIM.

To be blunt, they didn't even name these sources to CGD so…

[quote EmbarrassingHadrosaurus]Don't talk to her about it because she knows her stuff and is cleverer than us.

Quite why Quantum Impact's personnel assumed that Maya, a VF in a leading think tank, would, by default, know less than they did given that they had to get up to speed on the issues (and failed) is a question for the ages.

And I can not get over the fact that for £4K all in, they must have been soliciting external opinions on the level of reckons (or even chinny reckons).

CGD paid £4K and got reckons sent to them.

[/quote] To be fair to QI, assuming they had met with any of the senior personnel we’ve seen over the tribunal, they could be forgiven for believing the visiting fellows would be similarly well equipped to make a well researched and reasoned agreement. It must have been quite a shock to stumble across someone who actually knows what they’re talking about.

I don't think it would have been to hard to find someone with more legal expertise than they possessed of the situation in the UK. The question is if they knew enough of the basics to know whether the expertise was sufficient or accurate, IYSWIM.

To be blunt, they didn't even name these sources to CGD so…

I think the problem here is they didn't know enough to realise they didn't know enough. #dunning-kruger.

It's an all round shit show of incompetence from CGD and QI, they can't possibly be thinking they're doing/have done a good job here, they all look totally unprofessional and, quite frankly, stupid.

Delurking also to say thanks to the brilliant transcribers tabby and others. This case and thread is utterly gripping.

I am so sorry that this has been Maya's life for the last few years. I can't imagine how stressful it must've been for her but so pleased at what she is doing for womankind - and common sense generally. Another member of the Ben Cooper fan club here too.

@VestofAbsurdity

It's an all round shit show of incompetence from CGD and QI, they can't possibly be thinking they're doing/have done a good job here, they all look totally unprofessional and, quite frankly, stupid.

To some extent, those senior people seem to be operating in such a culture of impunity that I should think that they don't care one whit what we think, they're putting up their performance for the US audience and their funders.

They seem absolutely confident that their employment practices show them in an admirable and praiseworthy light that will attract funding from the sort of people who think along similar lines.

They're not strutting their stuff for Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie or Yeye Luisah Teish on "Rainbow flag imperialism". (Teish gave a fascinating overview of Yoruba traditions and how culture and traditions are ignored in a presentation during a WHRC event.)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBGrTV3OgBA&t=417s

They might be trying to attract like-minded thinkers, but surely anyone, whatever they think, even if they agree 100% with CGD, can see that they're incompetent.

You don't take legal/official advice from people whose advice is not get too involved in the issue you're consulting them about!

@LatinforTelly

Delurking also to say thanks to the brilliant transcribers tabby and others. This case and thread is utterly gripping.

I am so sorry that this has been Maya's life for the last few years. I can't imagine how stressful it must've been for her but so pleased at what she is doing for womankind - and common sense generally. Another member of the Ben Cooper fan club here too.

And yes. Poor Maya. The indignation rising to bloodcurdling outrage just watching the case is enough.

What she must have thought, being treated this way by people who had been her colleagues, God only knows.

It's a testament to the woman's strength of character that she has taken this on. She's absolutely bloody nails.

They had someone who knew what she was talking about in Miss Szabo — and they decided that rather than take EM and colleagues in hand and tell them to stop harassing MF for her beliefs, they would ignore Miss Szabo's advice and go with the QI 'experts'. Expensive learning curve.