"Lesbians a look at women in changing rooms too"

[ExtraPlinky]

This is the latest TRA response -
Some variation of "it's ok for men to share intimate spaces with women because lesbians and female predators exist too."

And shockingly I'm seeing women posting this usually then joined by the NotAllMenMan saying NotAllMen.

Sexnotgender you've completely ruined the plot of the last Confessions of a Windowcleaner film.

@titchy

It's a very male view isn't it? They DO ogle people in a state of undress so assume that women do the same. Newsflash - they don't!

It's porn fuelled wish fulfilment. They would like this to be how women behave. Not for each other, but for the gratification of a participating or watching male.

I couldn’t care less if a lesbian looked at me whilst I was changing, because I don’t fear that a woman is going to abduct, rape and murder me. Whilst I’m sure female predators exist, (I’ve yet to encounter one) I stand a much greater chance of getting away from her than I do a male. It’s not the fear of being looked at, it’s just more of the same fear of a man attacking or murdering me because he/she/they fancied it.

Because if I was attacked by a woman I might stand a chance.

If I was to be attacked by a bloke my chances are hella lot slimmer. And that’s just considering that blokes are generally taller than me and have bigger muscles. That’s not even putting a dick in the equation.

Woman have been harassed their whole lives. We get it.

I don't usually comment on here, mainly because my experience of being a lesbian is just normal. Living a good life with my wife, but this crap enrages and saddens me. Never felt threatened in the company of women. Lesbians and any other women aren't the problem.

@Iluvfriends

This is outrageous. Myself, my partner, my friends do not ever ogle other females anywhere, ever. This is just pure evil. This movement needs to be fought against they are a dangerous lot. Women are at serious risk here as are our daughters and granddaughters. Why are female politicians eg happy to go along witb this nonsense.....what the hell is happening, the world has gone mad.

Is it those that shout the loudest .......well we women need to start hollering.

Women at the top think they will never have to encounter anything other than women, cunty type, because they have the means to avoid any spaces where "women" might be. And their children too. They have been socialised to be kind, they think theres only 5000 and the chances of any of us even meeting one are vanishingly small. They haven't figured out that self id means one can be whatever they want on any given day like pips bunce. If they actually used their brain to figure out 50% of the population need do nothing except say the magic words and then can enter literally any space they want to. But yeah "be kiiiiiiiind"

@bythere

"why do people feel that changing with even a safe opposite sex person in these kinds of settings is undignified?"

It's mostly about one's desire not to be seen by someone of the opposite sex regardless of that person's sexual orientation. Most women would not want a gay man in their changing room even though he wouldn't think of them sexually but because he's still the opposite sex.

Yes, but what I'm asking is why we feel that way about it? Lots of people do feel that way but it's not so easy to articulate what that's really about, as its something we tend to feel at a very deep emotional or intuitive level.

Terfydactyl

They haven't figured out that self id means one can be whatever they want on any given day like pips bunce. If they actually used their brain to figure out 50% of the population need do nothing except say the magic words and then can enter literally any space they want to.

Here's another example. Does not seem to be a parody account in the least.

@DomesticatedZombie

Santa, that was my point when defining that voyeurism is a specific thing, and an issue we see almost entirely in males. And not okay.

Being in a space with someone who may look at our body and may have thoughts about it is not the same as being in a space with someone who specifically gets off on our non-consensual participation in their paraphilia.

Yes, but I don't think that is really the only reason women feel this way.

Even with a man whom they were absolutely comfortable with, but not involved with sexually, many women would not want to be in that situation. Like my dad, say. If we were stuck in some awful situation where we were naked in the woods or something, we'd get by fine. But I am still not keen to share a change room with him.

Maybe that's culturally mediated, I guess, as in some places family nudity is more relaxed? So the public element is more about the lack of control?

It's porn fuelled wish fulfilment. They would like this to be how women behave. Not for each other, but for the gratification of a participating or watching male.

It's the objectification which gives the game away. Women, whatever their sexual orientation, see each other as fully human.

So let's take this idiocy to its logical conclusion. Assume for the sake of argument, that lesbians are indeed the voyeuristic predatory bastards of porn fantasyland, and we leer and seduce and assault poor heterosexual women everytime we finish a workout, making changing rooms a place of terror for helpless straight girls everywhere. How is this horrifying nightmare (honestly, I don't know how gyms stay in business, it sounds awful in there) improved by letting even more predators in to take advantage of those helpless flowers?

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Terfydactyl

They haven't figured out that self id means one can be whatever they want on any given day like pips bunce. If they actually used their brain to figure out 50% of the population need do nothing except say the magic words and then can enter literally any space they want to.

Here's another example. Does not seem to be a parody account in the least.

Yeah I always knew there were more than pips. It's so shit, and I some days think we'll never win this fight. And some days I see more women finding out and speaking up. And then I have faith we will get there.

Using that logic which changing rooms should Bisexual people use?

(Its funny how I manage to get through life without jumping on every man or woman I see... and have actually been in a monogamous relationship for 15 years. The beach, he gym, bars, TV etc you can enjoy the eye candy. Changing room, too busy getting changed myself)

Their point makes no sense. Because women haven’t been going on about keeping lesbians out of women’s spaces. So are they now trying to tell us that we’ve somehow missed this and should also be asking to not have lesbians in our spaces? Or are they saying that because there’s predatory lesbians around (which there aren’t) that we should also let predatory trans women in? Every argument shows even more how they aren’t women. Because if they were women then they would get it.

I’m not afraid of women regardless of their sexual orientation. They can’t overpower me and they don’t have a penis to rape me with. Tbh I’m not even particularly concerned about post-op transsexuals. It’s penises that I don’t want to share my space with.

It's the objectification which gives the game away. Women, whatever their sexual orientation, see each other as fully human.

This. This is really important.

I am not a lesbian, but one of my oldest and dearest friends is and I find myself astonished at the idea I ought to be weirded out by getting changed with her. It has genuinely never occurred to me.

Following on from a previous post, a few years ago I used often to be in the gym changing room at the same time as a women's rugby team. They were all gender non-conforming, so I supposed at least some of them were lesbians, and pretty much all of them probably could have overpowered me as I am a weedy weakling. But I never once felt threatened, because they were women.

No we don't.

There may be some 'lesbians' who look, just like there are some 'lesbians' that enjoy degrading lesbian porn, but these 'lesbians' will have been born male.

It's a very male perspective. Like when they get angry if a gay man compliments them, because they register it as a threat, since they don't want another bloke thinking about them in the same aggressive way they think about women they find attractive?

Anyhow, as an ancient lesbian crone, I have been sitting here dredging up memories from all women/lesbian gyms in the 1980s, and I can't remember ever ogling another woman, or feeling uncomfortable because another woman was creeping me out.

I don't know how the young'uns do it these days, but back then it was more making eye contact and hoping she'd hold your gaze a fraction longer, then trying a smile to test if the interest was reciprocated. My intentions were oriented towards scoring her company at the juice bar, or finding out if she liked to go swimming in any of the local lakes.

Perhaps all the porn children view on their phones today has got them believing that lesbians behave like gay blokes in saunas and public toilets, throwing themselves instantly into having hot and sweaty sex (on those narrow, slatted wooden benches - so uncomfortable), rather than inviting each other out to share a pleasurable social activity while they get to know each other better.

In umptymumble years of lesbian socialising I never had to keep peeling a woman's sweaty and unwelcome mitts off me either. I've been swept of my feet by a few swashbuckling butches, but never against my will and over my protestations.

trans people do not need a third space, they would just become cruising spots. Also the number are tiny, spend the money on real needs - more family changing rooms, accessibility, modernising run down facilities.
@Atarax third spaces would be very useful for everyone actually. A self-contained room or two, in addition to the usual male/female/disabled facilities. Big enough that a parent can take a buggy inside and close the door. It also allows fathers to take their daughters to the toilet and mothers to take their sons. No more yelling "are you done yet?" down the corridor or asking a stranger to go in and check up on them.

I think 3rd spaces will only be useful if they are widely used - otherwise, they'll just turn into default male spaces again.

I've been thinking about the whole thing about not wanting to be naked even in front of men I feel safe around - and TBH, I don't want to be naked in front of women I know either - if I'm going to be naked, I would prefer it was in front of female strangers or medical professionals. But in analysing my feelings, they are different - male family is the not wanting to be naked in front of people I know feeling. Stranger males is fear. Stranger females I sell to myself as they'll never see me again so it doesn't matter - but there is no element of fear or wariness that there is with males.

It’s pure DARVO

As a lesbian I am super not interested in looking at other women in a changing room. I would not want to do anything that would make others feel uncomfortable.

I am 68. Right now, I am dredging my memory to recall an instance of another woman making me uncomfortable or afraid by sexually inappropriate behaviour. I cannot recall a single instance. If any woman ever did ogle me, she was very discreet.
However I could spend 2/3 hours recounting the times I have experienced men behaving like that e.g. the man who flashed me when I was 10. While bitter experience has taught me that many men cannot be trusted, I have not had to learn the same lesson of women.

”Lesbians look at women in changing rooms too” - This is the latest TRA response

God, they’re really getting desperate, aren’t they.

At some point they will alienate all the lesbians and the only "lesbians" left will be straight girls and men.