thank you from a TW

[Atarax]

Firstly apologies for posting in a woman's forum. I am transgender (male who lives as female). I wanted to thank the people here who keep me grounded and secure in who I am (not a woman, just a man who is in the wrong body and is fortunate to live in a society that lets me present, act and be accepted as a woman).
Reading threads here on safe spaces gave me the courage to use a men's changing room for the first time since transitioning - I never used woman's ones just accessible/gender neutral rooms. Not surprisingly I did not get attacked, a few curious looks and I kept myself covered in a towel.

You all keep it real and that is so important for those non extreme trans people. Don't stop the dialogue (but do keep respectful). Thanks again, just wanted to post because many (most?) of us get it.

Thank you for providing your perspective and recent experience of using the men’s facilities. It’s good to hear that you respect women’s spaces.

I am interested to hear what it was about reading posts on Mumsnet that changed your mind. Personally I think most men are oblivious the level of sexual harassment and worse that women and girls encounter day to day and cumulatively in their lifetimes so have no appreciation of the importance and need for women’s single sex spaces. I’m interested to know more about why your thinking has shifted on this topic.

All sexes and genders are welcome to post here, although thanks for acknowledging it is largely women. I hope you continue to feel and be safe around men.

Would love to pick your brains about some of the stuff we read on here/Stonewall says etc, but I can imagine it's a bit tiring.

As a bloke, I salute and welcome you. Gender non conformity is to be celebrated especially as you are doing the right thing. I view that more transgender males in male spaces as a sign of a healthy society and the death of toxic masculinity. I think that the vast majoity of men feel the same and it is a mystery why TRA's aren't pushing for male acceptance.

Hi Atarax, thank you for popping in. It certainly helps us to stay grounded and remember that the vocal activists are definitely in the minority. I hope you have safe spaces and forums online too and that they have not all been taken over by the extreme TRAs.

Thank you for dropping by 👋
Much as I hate the be kind trope shut up women it’s absolutely vital that the debate is kept polite and ‘high’

I am really pleased that you didn't get hassle in a men's room - surprised but pleased! What can we do as both women and transwomen to ensure men are more supportive and less enforcing of gender stereotypes?

I am really glad you are able to live as you please and that you've chosen to push for men to accept you as you are. I kinda feel like I am too old for the wider debate though!

Hello 👋

Always good to hear from an ally.

Let us know if you need support with championing dedicated trans services, we are more than happy to help.

I think when the vocal TRA’s get involved they don’t actually care about the struggles that trans people do go through. There’s so much real support you need, unfortunately feminists are spending so much energy fighting the fires against women’s rights that we can’t help. It’s such a refreshing change to hear someone like you be honest about your struggles. Take care.

I’m curious as to your opinion @Atarax
What do you think is driving the big push for access to women’s spaces?

Before trans women just wanted to be able to live their lives without harassment and not being ridiculed. So what has changed? Why is there such a huge gap in the mindset of trans women like yourself and others? Is it generational?

Double thumbs up! 👍👍

They’re not pushing for male acceptance because they want to dominate, control and intimidate women and girls spaces and lives. It’s not really about “trans rights” for TRAs.

@MarshmallowSwede

I’m curious as to your opinion *@Atarax* What do you think is driving the big push for access to women’s spaces?

Before trans women just wanted to be able to live their lives without harassment and not being ridiculed. So what has changed? Why is there such a huge gap in the mindset of trans women like yourself and others? Is it generational?

There is no new "big push". Trans women have always used women's spaces. If you weren't aware of that prior to the current moral panic, it just goes to show how little trouble they cause.

I hope you don't mind me asking, but how do you 'live as female'?

Women are all different. I bet you don't live like me, or millions of other women. But the main thing is that men and women all live the same way - as humans. There is no difference between the way 'woman as whole' live and 'men as a whole' live.

All humans are broadly the same, the only thing that makes men and women different is their sex and if you are of the male sex, you are not living as female. It's not possible.

But I would like to hear what makes you think you do live as female, if you don't mind answering.

There is no new "big push". Trans women have always used women's spaces. If you weren't aware of that prior to the current moral panic, it just goes to show how little trouble they cause.

Once more with feeling… We noticed them. It bothered many of us and made some extremely uncomfortable or unable to use the facility. When it was vanishingly small numbers, the majority respectful, it was easier to ignore. Now we have a significant increase in chancers and inappropriate in yer face behaviour and showboating we need a rethink. It’s no longer working for women.

Hi Atrax,

Do you really believe you're on the wrong body?

Thanks for respecting women's boundaries. Hopefully others who don't can follow your (and others who do) 's example.

During lockdown my DH's workplace had a big refit. They have a gym in the building and initially 2 changing rooms for men and women. As part of the refit they used extra space and created a women's, a unisex and a men's changing rooms. The unisex space, whilst being smaller, has several toilet cubicles with basins etc and another that includes a shower and toilet. I realise that not every business has the money or space to do this but personally I felt that this was a big step in the right direction. Everyone deserves privacy and dignity and it is a huge shame that LGBT organisations have spent so little time working on practical solutions.

There is no new "big push". Trans women have always used women's spaces. If you weren't aware of that prior to the current moral panic, it just goes to show how little trouble they cause.

Hmm not quite being truthful there though are we?

The demographic has changed considerably; more self identifying and not seeking full reassignment.

@WallaceinAnderland

I hope you don't mind me asking, but how do you 'live as female'?

Women are all different. I bet you don't live like me, or millions of other women. But the main thing is that men and women all live the same way - as humans. There is no difference between the way 'woman as whole' live and 'men as a whole' live.

All humans are broadly the same, the only thing that makes men and women different is their sex and if you are of the male sex, you are not living as female. It's not possible.

But I would like to hear what makes you think you do live as female, if you don't mind answering.

That question cannot be answered.

Can you think of one thing ALL women do that men NEVER do except when trying to "live as a woman"?

I can't think of anything like that.

Happy to stand with you, Atrax. Ultimately, upholding protections as laid out in the Equality Act will benefit all of us.

Thank you for posting. I have read quite a lot of stuff regarding the trans movement (if that's the right word) and I know from people giving personal accounts that the majority of trans identifying people just want to quietly get on with their lives , and are having a very difficult time with the aggressive and threatening behaviour of the TRA's.
Protecting female spaces does not automatically mean anti-trans, far from it, what it means is we are against predatory men who wish to access female only spaces for sexual purposes x

@WarriorN

There is no new "big push". Trans women have always used women's spaces. If you weren't aware of that prior to the current moral panic, it just goes to show how little trouble they cause.

Hmm not quite being truthful there though are we?

The demographic has changed considerably; more self identifying and not seeking full reassignment.

it really should not be complicated. It is patently obvious who are genuine trans women and are indistinguishable (clothed at any rate) from women. If you are trans and not 1000% certain that no one wld know you were not a woman - be respectful of single sex spaces and don't go there, really not such a big deal to go to the loo in the accessible toilet. If I need to go to a clothes store (say a bra) I will either - go early in the morning when no one is there or just try at home and return - sure it;s a hassle but get over it - life is full of compromise.

@SevenWaystoLeave

Given that most women can spot a transwoman from quite some distance, I think we are all well aware of how many transwomen have been using our spaces.

There are a huge number of visual cues that most women can't miss, including male gait, hip to shoulder ratio, hand and foot size, the type of clothing chosen...

You probably don't mean to be patronising but please consider how daft you sound trying to tell women that we can't tell the difference between the two sexes. We have evolved to be able to tell the difference at a glance.

Hi Atarax, I think one of the most valuable messages to get out there is that most men are ok with trans women, and aren't a threat to them. And that trans women understand the importance of single sex spaces for women and girls. I appreciate it took a bit of nerve to use male toilets or changing rooms, but I'm glad you did it and there was no drama. Every man I know would be civil, or actually indifferent. I presume most men ignore each other totally in shared spaces? Thanks for dropping by!

Women allowed a TINY minority of mtf transsexuals to use their spaces because they’d been led to believe that they’d all had the surgery and were of no threat to women and girls. We did it to be polite and kind. We were never asked if it was OK, they just moved in and we stepped aside out of kindness. Most transsexuals don’t even use women and girls spaces. They have been and still are aware that they are males and that women abs girls have a right to their privacy, dignity and safety away from all males.
In the last 10 years every male transvestite in the world has been invited to include themselves under the “trans” umbrella and to call themselves “transwomen”. These men have no medical diagnosis of dysphoria/dysmorphia, have no surgeries (or any intention of having the surgery) and few take cross sex hormones. They merely say “I’m a woman”. They make up 90% of men who identify as transgender. A vast number of them are heterosexual men with a paraphilia called autogynephilia. This means they are sexually attracted to themselves as “woman/girl”, the primary object of their sexual desire. They have a strong compulsion (in varying degrees) for wearing “woman/girl”. These are the men we are now expected to allow into all women and girls spaces, provisions and sports. This is where the real conflict arises because instead of there being a TINY number of men who identify as “transsexual” in women’s spaces, there’s now a lot of men identifying as “transgender” and they’re already driving women out: Out of toilets, changing rooms, showers, hospital wards and clinics, rape and DV shelters, jobs, awards and sports. And they’re making the lives of women prisoners unbearable. Women prisoners can’t escape the male sex offenders and rapists who’ve been transferred to women’s prisons because they identify as transgender. They’re trapped and no one is listening to them.
Women weren’t consulted on any of this. Policies and laws were changed by stealth and since the changes have been implemented to slowly remove single sex provisions across the board women and girls have been faced with the horrifying consequences. Men are being allowed to get naked in the women’s changing rooms around non-consenting women and girls. No one wants to be faced with a grown man indecently exposing himself to their six year old daughter in their local swimming pool showers only to be told “I’m a woman” and then accused of “transphobia” after reporting him for his crime. What’s the difference between a man flashing his genitals at a little girl in the park and a man doing it in the women’s changing rooms, irrespective of how he identifies? Why would he get arrested for it if he flashes in the park, but be protected by the authorities if he identifies as “trans” and flashes in the women’s changing rooms? It’s gaslighting on steroids. Gender self ID is a predatory man’s passport into women and girls spaces. This is what women and girls are currently faced with.
None of us consented to these changes, so of course women and girls and MOTHERS are going to challenge this erasure of their sex based rights.