If women cannot be defined biologically what happens to sex based oppression?

[Metabigot]

I mean reproductive issues such as abortion, antenatal care, maternity leave and impact on career etc.

Will we not be able to speak out on these for fear of offending the 'women' (ie trans women ) to whom this does not apply?

If transwomen are women, what are natal women... not representative of 'women' under the trans ideology it seems.

I have nothing against trans women living a life they wish and 'as a woman' if that eases dysphoria etc but my greatest fear is that female biological rights and issues will be suppressed under this ideology.

It feels like the way things are going it will be soon offensive to discuss these issues as it excludes transwomen.

Or am I exaggerating this?

Would transwomen ever support their fellow 'women' in fighting for these rights. Or see it as exclusive?

I'm referring to mainly reproductive issues as this is the one thing above all others transwomen can't do... no transwoman to my knowledge has gestated a child yet.

I have become much more militant about language over the last 2 years.

Perhaps it's lockdown and more time to read the politics and reflect on policies and the way that women are being silenced (unsurprisingly, each of those comes with the comment "WHAT THE FUCK?")

Perhaps it's age and getting to the stage where I no longer give a shit about what other people think about me.

But, really, I think it's fear. I am absolutely terrified for what this means for women.

I'll be ok, I have resources and support - but the women who need the refuges, who are incarcerated, who are unwell and the young women who see what is going on... Fucking terrified for them.

This is the difference between TRAs and us. We care about each other. They only think of themselves.

Men are a threat to women, the stats don't even support #notallmen so I'm no longer saying that SOME men are a threat to SOME women. The men who are giving my rights away, the politicians, the executives ant those medics, police and teachers who are turning a blind eye - they are a threat.

So, no, I will not call a male person a woman. No.

Firstly, trans women are women.They will stick up for cis women, as they are women themselves. You don't have to worry about that. If anything, they will be even more understanding due to the transphobia that they face.

As for identifying people who can give birth etc, you could say people who can give birth, simple as that.

ahahahahaha stick up for c* women (i refuse to have that term imposed on me) oh yes we've seen soooo much of that going on havent we? demanding access to any and all single sex spaces. The very use of the word c* shows that's a joke

I have a right to single sex spaces

nothankyou

Of course you have a right to single sex spaces! But with trans women being there, it is still a single sex space!

Trans women are male otherwise what are the transitioning from?

So no thank you

When someone says that they are a woman, they are a woman, and therefore have a right to be treated as such, and allowed into women's bathrooms etc.

that includes women who were assigned female at birth

No

Nope

No thank you

@ErynIsTrans

Of course you have a right to single sex spaces! But with trans women being there, it is still a single sex space!

Do you know what sex means?

@Theeyeballsinthesky

No

Nope

No thank you

That's your opinion, which you are perfectly entitled to! But things are changing, and you can't avoid trans people in the same spaces as you.

Watch me, Eryn.

I'm getting trans women out of female jails. State sanctioned rape is not ok.

No.

I don't care if I might possibly offend someone by not capitulating to my own erasure. The word is WOMAN, we all know what that means. No 'c' word allowed, no males in MY spaces.

You certainly know what buttons to press Eryn. Germaine Bunbury would have a few things to say about that.

@ErynIsTrans

Of course you have a right to single sex spaces! But with trans women being there, it is still a single sex space!

Eryns needs to go back to biology class methinks...

The fascinating thing to me is that Eryn et al think that it is totally fine to dismiss the "no" of women.

The least heard voice of all is that of a woman trying to maintain her boundaries.

It's just all a bit, well, rapey. Woman says "no", male person says "you can't"*.

Yes I fucking well can, and I fucking well am and I'll fucking well sort it out so that women who wish to have single sex spaces fucking get them.

No.

(*am assuming Eryn is male. Name aside, it's curiously hard to "pass" in the written word)

@ErynIsTrans

When someone says that they are a woman, they are a woman, and therefore have a right to be treated as such, and allowed into women's bathrooms etc.

Bathrooms?! Fucksake, only one person can have a bath at a time, love. No you can't come in, it's locked.

lmao i meant toilet but yeah good point

[quote Alltheprettyseahorses]I don't care if I might possibly offend someone by not capitulating to my own erasure. The word is WOMAN, we all know what that means. No 'c' word allowed, no males in MY spaces.

Cis my a*rse mate.

You won't get away with that word on here..

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

The fascinating thing to me is that Eryn et al think that it is totally fine to dismiss the "no" of women.

The least heard voice of all is that of a woman trying to maintain her boundaries.

It's just all a bit, well, rapey. Woman says "no", male person says "you can't"*.

Yes I fucking well can, and I fucking well am and I'll fucking well sort it out so that women who wish to have single sex spaces fucking get them.

No.

(*am assuming Eryn is male. Name aside, it's curiously hard to "pass" in the written word)

Ok first of all I'm not denying the "no" of women, this is a friendly debate, and i've tried my best to be as nice as possible to everyone here.

I agree, women (and people in general) need to be able to express their boundaries, and be heard and listened to. If this is against your boundaries, then I'm sorry, but you and most people here are invalidating my experiences and my existence.

Its not rapey. This is a debate. You are saying something, and I am disagreeing with you, then you disagree with me. Its a debate, and let's face it, none of what either of us say here is going to have real-world consequences.

Also THANK YOU SO MUCH for the comment about me being male /gen that was really gender affirming for me. I (as you can see by my username), trans. But i was actually assigned female at birth! I now am non-binary, but more masculine leaning (neptunian to be more specific) I have faced misgendering and transphobia for a while now so it means so much, so genuinely, thank you! /gen

Would you like someone like me in the women's restroom?

Cisgender: A term for people whose gender identity generally matches the gender assigned for their physical sex. In other words, someone who does not identify as transgender.

its okay to not be cis!

@ErynIsTrans

Cisgender: A term for people whose gender identity generally matches the gender assigned for their physical sex. In other words, someone who does not identify as transgender.

We know what it means

Ahem......

We can see this debate escalating so can we ask that everyone's preferred monikers are respected please.

Eryn,
If you’re a transman I’d have no problem with you in the womens loo. Because biologically your sex is female.
By the way, because language matters, you weren’t assigned female at birth. Your sex was observed, most likely at one of the early scans and recorded at your birth. To assign usually involves a decision being made. Whereas biological sex is not a decision, it’s simply a fact (of life).

Let me ask a question. If your dad put on a dress tomorrow and decided his, sorry her name was Sarah, is your dad automatically now a women who should be given access to womens spaces such as changing rooms?
Also, in your opinion, is your dad Sarah now in fact your mum?
Genuinely curious in your response…