Rapes committed by women - JKR got me thinking

[scratchedbymycat]

JKR just tweeted again. I agree wholeheartedly with her views, but some of the responses have got me thinking.

Why does it matter if crime stats say women rape?

(I promise I'm not trolling here. In fact, I'm hoping for some startlingly clear objective responses to fuel my arguments.)

For me, I find it downright hateful, after all the violence and hate directed towards women by men, that stats will now say 'women are doing it to women'. That makes me so damn angry. But is feeling offended by this, on principle, enough?

On crime stats and recording... Seth Abramson (I know) on Twitter commented that the fact the perpetrator has a penis will come up in the court case. So the court will know they are not biologically female.

Also, if we say a woman raped another, doesn't that also immediately tell us the rapist was transgender? (The only group who identify as women but are also bepenised).

How does a biological women rape another? Because I've seen claims on Twitter that some biological women have been found guilty of rape. Is this a lie?

I'm trying to tease my thoughts out. Only just starting to comment about the gender identity consequences for women to friends etc, and just want to be super clear when I say anything, and not to slip into emotional anger (which happens a lot for me).

Solas.

Just wrote a long post and lost it!

Just catching up and seen you say I have my dates completely wrong about report, and that it is very unlikely to contain the info I shared, and if it does I might have misread it.

I realised that I've corrected you on 2 or 3 errors. GRC process Ireland well known, I was surprised didn't know esp given the obvious knowledge of situation and justice system Ireland.
BK you said released prison out on bail. That shit me up proper as it would I'm sure anyone who knows about situation. I've been following since start, over a year prob. I was worried and spent a large amount of time hunting down cross referencing dates, checking more than one site same info, and it was involved as info on this v sparse.
You said oops sorry.
I was honestly freaking out this person is beyond terrifying.

So given all that. You said your dates are wrong must be. And unlikely says what you say, and you may have misread.

Essentially. Nope. Prove it.

And after the bk wild goose chase, you putting the fear of God info me with a statement of fact that was just wrong.

This time. Why don't you look at the report. It's on relevant Irish govt dept site.
Took me a little while as not familiar with Irish govt structure, dept names.

You know lots about it, so why don't you look it up. After all, I can't be trusted to get really basic info correct.

I know I sound arsey but that BK out and about statement, when in prison. Given BK even psych said was extreme sociopath whose only interest in life was attacking, raping, killing women.

Happy to discuss the dates and 2/3 when you ready.

You think that despite me putting both the date of report going to minister, then checking when the inspection was carried out. And given the point was to understand how one govt source said 2 trans inmates and another said 3 in the same month. You think I managed to get the dates wrong? When I checked report twice for different dates?

Oops last para shouldn't be there!

Editing cock up.

'SomepeopleareTERFSgetoverit

Did I express myself poorly? This scenario:-

“Joe” rapes a woman.

He looks like a man, his friends know him as a man, he has never expressed any desire to be a woman.

At his trial he turns up in a wig and wants to be called Josephine.

The system says no, you were a man when you carried out the offence and we will not acknowledge this sudden change of heart nor require your victim to use female pronouns.'

---

I understand your thinking but no way will happen. Just so many reasons.

1. Joe may not yet be out. May only go out as true self occasionally. May not be out to anyone they know. Not feeling able to be free to live as your true self is generally considered same as being same sex attracted and not being out. IE It's shit, upsetting, stressful. Can cause MH issues. Etc.

1. And struggling with trans identity, not being out or occasionally going out with 'woman presentation' I've seen in news reports more than once as mitigation, in sex offence trials. (FFS)

1. Widely expressed essential point that internal gender id and gender presentation are completely separate. To expect any man or woman to look certain ways because they are a man or a woman is oppressive. Plus. Some (sorry) 'cis' women are flat chested/ have facial hair/ are very tall/ are very muscular/ have deep voices/ have fairly prominent Adams apples/ wear masculine clothes etc.

Policing how women look is extremely misogynistic. Feminists have been fighting for years for women to not be judged for not adhering to oppressive beauty standards.

1. Rapists are rarely reported, even then hardly ever get to court..

Realistically there will be males imprisoned for other crimes who have committed a sex offence but got away with it.

1. Plenty of males enjoy making women/girls feel nervous, scared, embarrassed, humiliated, intimidated, uncomfortable in a wide range of ways.

This is of course not illegal unless crosses various lines. And even then rarely reported etc. It's not just rapists who are a risk to women. There's a whole variety of crimes, behaviours, actions, some get subtle, that (sadly plenty of men) like to deploy against women/girls.

1. Males, however they present and in what situations, are all male. There's no reason at all to believe asking to be called a different name and being gender non conforming in appearance, alter the prevalence of these types of behaviours towards women/ girls.

1. Removing certain rights/ altering identity (used for lots of other things which are v important)/ etc.

Would IMO be a massive can of worms. Esp with direction of current govt.

Sorry no chance.

@SomepeopleareTERFSgetoverit

Did I express myself poorly? This scenario:-

“Joe” rapes a woman.

He looks like a man, his friends know him as a man, he has never expressed any desire to be a woman.

At his trial he turns up in a wig and wants to be called Josephine.

The system says no, you were a man when you carried out the offence and we will not acknowledge this sudden change of heart nor require your victim to use female pronouns.

It depends on the law and as we see in the UK prison system the policy which is put in place.

In Ireland, Joe needs 90 days between arrest and arriving at the Court House door /Prison gate
Once Joe files in the application form and the Minister in charge does not object, Josephine gets the GRC and has a right to be called her and be held in the Women's Prison.

With the UK system Josephine claims to be at the start of her journey

CheeseMmmm trust your own research first above others giving you independent proof.

Try searching using
"Ireland prison restricted regime section 63 + month and year e.g. oct 2019
You should get a report for at least l every 2nd or 3rd month for the prisoners held in solitary. It's a pdf on Irishprisons.ie i can't see the long web address on my phone
The margin of error is that a woman prisoner has covid or was put in isolation

Trust your own research first?

That's a rather arrogant approach!

Especially as on this thread, your research seems to have led to you confidently stating things that were wrong twice.

What research did you carry out that led you to believe-

• That there was some kind of process in Ireland for GRC. It's common knowledge to those with any interest in this topic that Ireland moved to online form for GRC ages ago.

• That BK had been released from Limerick prison and was out on bail.

How can you possibly have found credible info on those things when they are simply not true?

I'm a bit flabbergasted, how do you think it makes you come across?!

Tbc (keep losing posts).

And your total confidence in your own research.

Leads you to assume that you know better than others. You must be right so they are wrong.

To the point that despite the fact I was the person you said oh oops I'm wrong to twice.

You suggest that I've read two separate dates in incorrectly, that the info I shared surely couldn't exist, and if it was there I might well have misread it.

Your confidence in your own research is... Staggering!

I say look at govt official report see for yourself. You've got prison reports, which prison, dates of inspection, date submitted to minister....

And you don't even Google? Just to have a sqiz? Because obviously you're right? Is this because you trust your own research over independent proof?

Instead tell me to go off and Google something else?

I don't need to Google. You do. Because the report is freely available on the relevant govt site. Easy to find. And my dates are correct, and what it says are correct.

Having such a level of faith in your rightness, and such a low opinion of others such that your info is always correct and they must be mistaken.

That's a poor way to approach conversation, discussion, debate. And it's a barrier to you learning new/ interesting/ important things.

That post is a corker I can't believe you sat down and thought yep I'll post that

Oh and you've forgotten the reason for looking at various sources to see the number.

We previously agreed everything pointed to 3.

The problem was that this report that you CBA to look up says 2. And he interviewed both about their situation issues etc.

So where was the third? Could it be they hid BK? Because... Well. Might have made his views different?

If you thought hmm maybe the official report might be pretty key as it's the one where he's saying two. Reading again the way it's expressed is really interesting. Really interesting indeed.

I'm not sure why you've decided that it's about how many, when it's always been about the discrepancy which seems odd.

Btw your use of margin of error is not appropriate with numbers so small and discrete.

Saying a one whole human margin of error for counting 3 whole humans. Margin of error? That raises concerns around teachers and school trips, work head counts .....

Of course! 3 in prison 1 in general population!
Why didn't someone else think of that ages ago? Not 'margin of error'. Obvious once realise!

So inspector DID meet and spend time with bk. Now to dig out the statement I saw yonks ago.

#CheeseMmmm
You have mis-read.
You hold firm to what you have researched.

If someone else contradicts you ask them to produce supporting (independent) proof.

As you pointed out you have been doing a lot of checking and cross checking and my research had a data gap
I appreciate your research.
It is very hard in this instance as the direct electronic versions of newspapers doing Court reporting have been removed. And others anonymised.

It was accidental rather than deliberate so be blunt but polite with me if and when I get it wrong.
If I am wrong I am not too proud to apologies rather than argue that I am right.
🌻

Wasn't expecting that after I posted really pissed off!

Thank you.

You have noticed how sparse info on this is on the net, yes it's really obvious.

On the court cases over 18. And the fact there (used to be) copies of the letter sent to those hosting anything. Which said not anything under 18. But court order to remove everything pertaining to BK.

That's pretty suss. I know you weren't buying it but having tried to find info yourself. What are your thoughts? Given what the letter said. (Which has itself been vanished).

Your posts indicate a v strong belief in the machinery of govt and their various arms etc behaving as per how it should work. Adhering to own rules, their depts and all that sits under following the process, the law, doing what's expected.

Is it right to think you find it v challenging to even consider that might not always be the case, that it might not be the case here?

@CheeseMmmm
Have you recently name changed? Your writing style reminds me very much of another user who I haven’t seen post for a while.

Hello!
After some recent 'feedback' I have realised that I do maybe have an obvious positing style!

I namechange quite regularly because I post a lot and and realised ages ago if didn't, overall the posts would give too much info about me iyswim.

Not that I think anyone would be bothered but makes me feel better!

So yes not trying to pretend I'm a different poster!

Really interested who you're thinking of!

Been here 15 years so lots of names!

@CheeseMmmm

Hello! After some recent 'feedback' I have realised that I do maybe have an obvious positing style!

I namechange quite regularly because I post a lot and and realised ages ago if didn't, overall the posts would give too much info about me iyswim.

Not that I think anyone would be bothered but makes me feel better!

So yes not trying to pretend I'm a different poster!

Really interested who you're thinking of!

Been here 15 years so lots of names!

No! No! I don’t think you’re trying to be a different poster! I know lots of people name change for privacy and security purposes. I have a MA in Linguistics so I just have a bit of an interest in writing styles.

Would I be right if I said your previous name contained the name of a small rodent?

Yes! Got it in one :)

I hadn't noticed before - Martina Navratilova is on it too.

https://twitter.com/martina/status/1471542093466288139?s=21

She was early to speak out in support of.. female.. women

She got massive shit for it.

After a bit she tried a more conciliatory, both groups are important but mustn't discard any needs ..

Afaik been quiet for a while.

Assume she's just thought fuck this, now.

(If she been vocal I just didn't know, sorry, happy to be corrected).

Martina march 2019.

Got loads of attention from media.
Loads of condemnation etc and widely reported

www.bbc.com/sport/47433144

I hadn't noticed anything from her for a while either CheeseMmmm though I may have missed it.

I think it's like Sharon Davies (who is a bit more vocal) but it starts with being conciliatory, and just trying to protect women's sport and before you know it they've gone full terf.

Got booted by an org she was v involved with also much publicity.

www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/feb/20/lgbt-group-drops-martina-navratilova-over-transgender-comments

Then unless missed it she's been fairly quiet.

Understandably.

Suspect end of tether.

Thing is this when it comes to this.

Not being 100% on the constantly changing mantras etc.
Even 1 foot wrong, accidentally saying something that was the thing 3 months ago but has changed.

Not mentioning importance of trans rights etc on any posts to do with... Most things...

International Women's Day,
Date of note for lesbian women/ gay men in Germany.
Support for black person looks like US police been awful.
Save pandas.
Terrible wildfires.
Death of tennis star from back in the day. The disappearance of the lesser spotted frog ant in Guatemala.

If female.

Failure to centre, talk about, express sadness, anger, disgust, bafflement at plight of 'trans community'* before, in capitals, moving onto eg saw dodo, single handedly saved the panda, won Nobel prize etc.

Then you're SATAN.
Which means people eventually think well fuck this, might as well say what I think.

* Noting that from what I can see the trans orgs etc rarely (I couldn't find any) do any actual tangible, real life, on the ground... anything for the community they exist for...
Which IMO is disgraceful. That's another thread though!