Great. Son now says he’s trans.

[dangermouseisace]

I am doing my best non judgemental listening but oh my god.

Middle child is “non binary”. Eldest today says the reason he’s not eating properly and why he was unhappy 4 years ago is because he’ll never be happy as a man, and he wants hormones surgery the lot.

I have been clear about my opinion re gender throughout their lives. I am glad they feel able to speak to me but I don’t know what to do. I’ve said I’ll book him a dr’s appointment, and suggested counselling. I feel it’s a case of too much internet but it’s hard to control that- they find old devices if you put restrictions on, and everything works off the internet these days.

My children clearly have their struggles but I feel a failure as a mother as I don’t feel strong enough to deal with them. I’ve already had time off work with stress this week. I feel I just cannot cope with anything any more. What the hell can I do?

@MargaritaPie

"You’re advising a highly homophobic and misogynistic men’s right activist lobby group as a source of support for parenting"

No, I'm recommending a gay rights charity which was founded in 1989 and became a charity in 2003. It began as a resistance to the then Government's Section 28 if you're familiar with that.

Stonewall has since became a well established gay rights charity, you can wear a Stonewall hat/shirt to a gay pride event or gay bar and not be kicked out, and a teacher can be a trustee of Stonewall without the students protesting.

I've been donating to them a while now and will continue to do so. In hate-filled times like these they need even more help.

I am familiar with the campaign against section 28, I participated in campaigning against it at the time. I know the history of Stonewall.

But it is no longer an organisation that campaigns for lesbian and gay rights. What does gender identity have to do with sexual orientation? They are 2 separate issues, but often linked together due to both being minority issues, and because they some times overlap.

Well I'm in a minority (and I'm queer, as currently defined by Stonewall) but I don't demand that my minority issue be included in Stonewall's remit, or become its raison d'être.

@dangermouseisace

I am doing my best non judgemental listening but oh my god.

Middle child is “non binary”. Eldest today says the reason he’s not eating properly and why he was unhappy 4 years ago is because he’ll never be happy as a man, and he wants hormones surgery the lot.

I have been clear about my opinion re gender throughout their lives. I am glad they feel able to speak to me but I don’t know what to do. I’ve said I’ll book him a dr’s appointment, and suggested counselling. I feel it’s a case of too much internet but it’s hard to control that- they find old devices if you put restrictions on, and everything works off the internet these days.

My children clearly have their struggles but I feel a failure as a mother as I don’t feel strong enough to deal with them. I’ve already had time off work with stress this week. I feel I just cannot cope with anything any more. What the hell can I do?

let your child be who they are, it is how your child feels and it is their life not yours. if your child is trans, let him be trans. it is not the internets fault. put yourself in your son's shoes.

@CorrBlimeyGG and @alicemcswitch, what is it to be trans please? What's the science and biology that evidences we could be "in the wrong body"?

I keep asking because I would like to understand, so that I may better support my own trans child (who cannot define it to me either, other than "if you don't feel it, you don't know it").

alicemcswitch

Depends what you mean by that. Wearing different clothes etc and experimenting with make up is fine . Heading to the transition pathway is not.
A good parent makes sure the child has all the support they need before making such a big decision to moving down a medical pathway. As the chances of medical transition being the wrong decision is high. A bad parent ignores all that and skips straight to transition. Do you agree?

Who in their right mind can think that Stonewall supports gay people? They are taking a black lesbian to court. They support people who claim that “genital preference” which is homosexuality is transphobic.

It is such a shame. Stonewall used to be such a great charity.

"They are taking a black lesbian to court"

Correction- isn't she taking Stonewall to court because she doesn't agree with trans people having rights?

I also saw a rather bizarre post on Twitter by her where she appeared to accuse trans people of throwing chocolate into her garden to "poison her dog". Then she randomly posted the word "ribbons". Personally to me that doesn't come across as someone of sound mind.

I don't understand MargaritaPie. What rights don't trans people have? I'm new to this discussion and I'm trying to educate myself as much as I can.

Wow this derailing is quite something.

Anyway good luck OP

Maybe the discrepancy of rights between Transpeople and people who don't identify as Transpeople is a problem.

People who identify as Transpeople can amend (not correct, amend) their birth certificate to change the information. I don't think anyone else can amend the information on their birth certificate.

Obviously, to level up this privilege only afforded to some, others may feel that other detail should now be open to change in the same way. e.g. I do not feel my age and don't see why I should have to share the 'wrong inner feeling' age with employer, health provider etc. I'm all for a levelling up of rights which is now only afforded to Transpeople.

Sorry, Op. Just say some posts and have engaged with the derail.

Correction- isn't she taking Stonewall to court because she doesn't agree with trans people having rights?

Really? Evidence please

I mean actual evidence…her own words saying ‘ i dont think trans people should have rights’….not an article or quote from someone else

Thank you in advance

@MargaritaPie

"They are taking a black lesbian to court"

Correction- isn't she taking Stonewall to court because she doesn't agree with trans people having rights?

I also saw a rather bizarre post on Twitter by her where she appeared to accuse trans people of throwing chocolate into her garden to "poison her dog". Then she randomly posted the word "ribbons". Personally to me that doesn't come across as someone of sound mind.

Which is all fascinating I'm sure, but what does that have do do with OP and her son?

One would think you've come onto this thread specifically so OP cannot get the help she needs. I wonder why that would be?

Allison Bailey is taking Stonewall to court because she alleges they pressured her chambers to discriminate against her at work by means of their controversial diversity champions scheme. And despite the best efforts of Mumsnet favourite Robin Moira White the judge felt there was a reasonable prospect of her succeeding, so it's going ahead next year.

Similarly, it was “plainly arguable from the terms of the complaint of 31 October 2019 that Stonewall sought to induce chambers to subject the claimant to a detriment because of her publicly expressed beliefs and the allegations that she had made against Stonewall”.
Judge Stout added: “If the claimant establishes that taking action against her for her beliefs is unlawful indirect sex or sexual orientation discrimination (which is not a straightforward issue), and that the allegations are indeed protected acts, and if the necessary causal connection to a detriment for the purposes of section 111(5)(a) [of the Act] can be established, then she will succeed at trial.”
She concluded that the claim was “at least reasonably arguable and stands more than little prospect of success”.

https://www.legalfutures.co.uk/latest-news/chambers-and-stonewall-fail-to-strike-out-barristers-discrimination-claim

You say you see gender as a social construct

But then you say * Until last week he was acting on the whole, very stereotypically male (only likes men's football not women, interested in cars and eating meat) and has done so since oooh about age 4 through choice.*

The two statements contradict one another.
If you felt gender was a social construct, then fact he liked he enjoyed men’s football and meat (seriously?) is utterly irrelevant.

Well, it's fairly clear from this thread that a least a minority of 'GC' posters on this board aren't about preserving the definition of 'female' at all.

They are about wishing trans people out of existence.

As I say, I only believe it to be a minority of posters who hold this view, but it is pretty revealing, isn't it?

Wishing trans people out of existence? Who said that?

Well, it's fairly clear from this thread that a least a minority of 'GC' posters on this board aren't about preserving the definition of 'female' at all.

They are about wishing trans people out of existence.

In what sense? Please elaborate.

@Zebradanio

Wishing trans people out of existence? Who said that?

Yes don’t remember seeing that but the threads do move fast so maybe i missed it

Plus ive a dreadful habit of forgetting to refresh

No one. Just the usual hyperbole.

Who is wishing trans people out of existence? That sounds like awful transphobia and should be reported.

People here are suggesting that some children and teenagers are still finding their way. They are warning against them going down an irreversible path (which includes puberty blockers) without thorough investigation and evaluation.

Posters here are further stating that there is a conflict of interests between gay people who believe that a lesbian is a biological women who likes vaginas and not penis. TRAs think that a lesbian should fancy all people who declare themselves to be women even if they have a penis. There are some awful threats on Twitter towards lesbians who do not comply.

Women here further have safeguarding concerns about biological males in spaces where females are vulnerable (prisons, hospital wards, toilets). There have been some instances of rape (boy in a skirt in girls toilet, transwoman assaulting a 10-year old girl in a toilet, rape by a transwoman in prison), sexual assault (hospital wards and prisons).

Women here look at research showing that transwomen offend at the rate of other males. Is it 98% of sex offenders which are male?

Women here also state that it is impossible to tell dysphoric transwomen from men trying to claim to be trans to assault women and girls.

TRAs claim that all these risks and assaults are something we should live with to make life better for transwomen.

Note: I am saying transwomen all through here. All feminist posters are happy for transmen to be in female spaces. They also support third spaces.

Most posters here also wish transwomen all happiness and long successful lives.

thedancingbear

Which posters said that?

Oh and while im here…and yes i do realise the utter futility of this next question

Any evidence margaritapie ?

@thedancingbear

Well, it's fairly clear from this thread that a least a minority of 'GC' posters on this board aren't about preserving the definition of 'female' at all.

They are about wishing trans people out of existence.

As I say, I only believe it to be a minority of posters who hold this view, but it is pretty revealing, isn't it?

Which posters?

@thedancingbear

Well, it's fairly clear from this thread that a least a minority of 'GC' posters on this board aren't about preserving the definition of 'female' at all.

They are about wishing trans people out of existence.

As I say, I only believe it to be a minority of posters who hold this view, but it is pretty revealing, isn't it?

Another nice bit of deflective and distractive hyperbole here.

Please do point out exactly where anyone has ‘wished’ this.

I suspect it is merely another attempt to aim a pointy finger of shame at posters stating people cannot change sex and that the words woman and man have not been given new meanings and still relate purely to the sex class of sexually mature humans.

I have just watched this interview with Dr Az Hakeem and then with Sinead Watson and thought you may find it interesting too, OP. It makes very clear the dangers of an affirmation only model, particularly as Sinead gets to tell her story too with passion and fury.

The idea that the ROGD stuff is a youth sub-culture - effectively Goth: Mark 6 - which we are now trying to medicalise, whereas before teen identities were all music based, I thought very plausible.