Great. Son now says he’s trans.

[dangermouseisace]

I am doing my best non judgemental listening but oh my god.

Middle child is “non binary”. Eldest today says the reason he’s not eating properly and why he was unhappy 4 years ago is because he’ll never be happy as a man, and he wants hormones surgery the lot.

I have been clear about my opinion re gender throughout their lives. I am glad they feel able to speak to me but I don’t know what to do. I’ve said I’ll book him a dr’s appointment, and suggested counselling. I feel it’s a case of too much internet but it’s hard to control that- they find old devices if you put restrictions on, and everything works off the internet these days.

My children clearly have their struggles but I feel a failure as a mother as I don’t feel strong enough to deal with them. I’ve already had time off work with stress this week. I feel I just cannot cope with anything any more. What the hell can I do?

[quote Mummyoflittledragon]This may come from school. But there is a lot of grooming online. My dd’s former school has been captured by stonewall and broadcast a propaganda video created by one of the teachers during lockdown, which contravened the DofE guidelines. As a result, it was shelved but the damage for lots of children had been done.

You may find this podcast of use and it talks about the grooming. grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/grooming-its-different-for-boys/comments[/quote]
I think every other risk outside of school has some aspect of schools to counteract that.

Kids are at risk of so much online, with peers and within their families. Schools are supposed to be the safety net. They may not be able to fix anything but they all have policies/training geared at tackling extremism, grooming, abuse, drugs and so on.

I can’t think of any other examples of risk posed by social contagion that schools are either unintentionally not safeguarding kids from because they are lost themselves, and don’t really understand why the d of e guidance has changed, or that they are actively promoting in schools.

It’s the equivalent of schools handing cutters razor blades or pointing them in the direction of pro ana sites.

Parents need to make it our business to know every policy, every pshe lesson plan, every organisation that’s in our kids schools, and don’t accept schools word that they meet d of e guidance or that outside organisations are working together compliant. And then get familiar with the grievance procedures. And don’t wait to do this until it’s effected the kids.

I work with a boy a similar age who claims to be trans (wants to be female). His parents are dead against it and have threatened legal action against the school if we go along with it.

This boy has been in and out of hospital more times than I can count.
He is anorexic, self harms and has tried to commit suicide and come close several times.
He is not allowed to walk around in his own incase he jumps from an upper floor, we’re not allowed to have anything sharp that he can slit his wrists with etc - and this is all because he doesn’t feel comfortable in his own body.

For me personally if calling someone a she instead of a he or vice versa and letting them use the unisex/disabled toilet to go to the bathroom and change for PE means that this person won’t self harm that day then I’d let them.

I think with teens you kind of just have to go with the flow. Lots of times it’s just a phase and they just want to see if you’ll support them.
If it’s not a phase then you can deal with that in a couple years time.

I totally agree @BloodinGutters. The video was delivered during 2 form lessons in lockdown. Dd was already aware of my GC views and she called me to come and watch the video with her but the first half was almost finished. I then watched the second half the following day, effing and blinding along. I wish I’d had the foresight to video it. The school said they’d display it on the website but never did, which I imagine was due to my email.

@toocold54

I work with a boy a similar age who claims to be trans (wants to be female). His parents are dead against it and have threatened legal action against the school if we go along with it.

This boy has been in and out of hospital more times than I can count.
He is anorexic, self harms and has tried to commit suicide and come close several times.
He is not allowed to walk around in his own incase he jumps from an upper floor, we’re not allowed to have anything sharp that he can slit his wrists with etc - and this is all because he doesn’t feel comfortable in his own body.

For me personally if calling someone a she instead of a he or vice versa and letting them use the unisex/disabled toilet to go to the bathroom and change for PE means that this person won’t self harm that day then I’d let them.

I think with teens you kind of just have to go with the flow. Lots of times it’s just a phase and they just want to see if you’ll support them.
If it’s not a phase then you can deal with that in a couple years time.

That’s tragic. Do you genuinely think that calling him she however would resolve everything else?

@toocold54

I work with a boy a similar age who claims to be trans (wants to be female). His parents are dead against it and have threatened legal action against the school if we go along with it.

This boy has been in and out of hospital more times than I can count.
He is anorexic, self harms and has tried to commit suicide and come close several times.
He is not allowed to walk around in his own incase he jumps from an upper floor, we’re not allowed to have anything sharp that he can slit his wrists with etc - and this is all because he doesn’t feel comfortable in his own body.

For me personally if calling someone a she instead of a he or vice versa and letting them use the unisex/disabled toilet to go to the bathroom and change for PE means that this person won’t self harm that day then I’d let them.

I think with teens you kind of just have to go with the flow. Lots of times it’s just a phase and they just want to see if you’ll support them.
If it’s not a phase then you can deal with that in a couple years time.

The problem is that risk of suicide increases in socially transitioned kids. And medical transition increases it even further iirc.

Absolutely allow access to a third space for toilets and changing, but teaching a child it’s ok to keep secret with adults by affirming pronouns at school when parents have been clear you mustn’t is a safeguarding fail.

Point being that by affirming pronouns you are increasing the risk of Sui & si

@Mummyoflittledragon

I totally agree *@BloodinGutters*. The video was delivered during 2 form lessons in lockdown. Dd was already aware of my GC views and she called me to come and watch the video with her but the first half was almost finished. I then watched the second half the following day, effing and blinding along. I wish I’d had the foresight to video it. The school said they’d display it on the website but never did, which I imagine was due to my email.

It’s completely crazy that we should have to think this way. To feel so suspicious of the very people supposed to safeguard kids.

I feel like I go into schools prepped for war. I get everything emailed or minutes or send follow up emails if a conversation wasn’t minuted. I can quote school policies and d of e guidelines and laws at them if put on the spot. I am recording everything so it’s ready for formal complaints if necessary. I’m obsessively pedantic about not letting anything slip past us and I know they think I’m fussing over nothing but I can’t understand how they find it difficult to follow d of e guidance. I have such little tolerance for stupidity, and I’m not waiting until they’ve groomed my kids ready for the tra’s to get in there. Because my two have autism and they don’t have any resilience. And it’s a very real risk that despite our open and direct communication of biological facts at home that they would be the exact demographic at most risk from this. And I can’t live supporting them through regret of being sterilised just because they wanted to escape puberty, boys bullying girls and because they didn’t like skirts or sparkly things enough.

Figuring out which school poses the least safeguarding risk to kids and then fighting with the school to reduce that risk is a surreal way to live. But it’s better than head in the sand approach many parents seem happier with.

Absolutely allow access to a third space for toilets and changing, but teaching a child it’s ok to keep secret with adults by affirming pronouns at school when parents have been clear you mustn’t is a safeguarding fail.

Yes that’s why we don’t do it.
We have told parents that they can access the disabled toilets which does help them a lot but they are still called he and have to do boys PE etc.
Their name is (similar to) Samuel but wants to be samatha which the parents won’t allow so we just say sam.

So we have managed to come up with a compromise but the parents completely dismissing his feelings without even having a conversation makes the situation way worse.

I also knew a girl who wanted to transition and her parents were very supportive to a point and she was extremely happy with herself and has now gone past the phase and doesn’t feel that way anymore.

So I definitely think it’s important to have supportive parents even if they don’t 100% agree with it.

I know a boy (now transgirl) like that toocold but already enmeshed in gender services before they suicidal ideation started and parents who were on board so when the mental health distress started gender issues were considered the reason and there was a readily available hormonal answer. Puberty blockers from 10, because otherwise they’d kill themselves and cross sex hormones from 15 for the same reason (not in the UK).

He never went through male puberty and looks like a girl, yet is still suicidal. No friends, no social life, no fertility (too suicidal to wait for sufficient maturation to allow for sperm retrieval before blockers) does everything with his mum, no longer at school.

He never went through male puberty and looks like a girl, yet is still suicidal.

That makes me so sad.
The boy I know gets therapy to try to get to the bottom of his suicidal thoughts.
I do actually believe some people are genuinely born in the wrong body but this is a tiny percentage of the people who claim to be, often they don’t feel themselves or like themselves so put it down to wanting to be transgender when it’s not.

If my child ever speaks to me about wanting to transition I would be supportive and go with the flow but refuse anything that is permanent until they’re at an age that they can choose for themselves.

@toocold54

I work with a boy a similar age who claims to be trans (wants to be female). His parents are dead against it and have threatened legal action against the school if we go along with it.

This boy has been in and out of hospital more times than I can count.
He is anorexic, self harms and has tried to commit suicide and come close several times.
He is not allowed to walk around in his own incase he jumps from an upper floor, we’re not allowed to have anything sharp that he can slit his wrists with etc - and this is all because he doesn’t feel comfortable in his own body.

For me personally if calling someone a she instead of a he or vice versa and letting them use the unisex/disabled toilet to go to the bathroom and change for PE means that this person won’t self harm that day then I’d let them.

I think with teens you kind of just have to go with the flow. Lots of times it’s just a phase and they just want to see if you’ll support them.
If it’s not a phase then you can deal with that in a couple years time.

Way too much that is identifying here about a very vulnerable child who could easily be identified by peers, fellow staff or other parents. I don't think this complies with your safeguarding responsibilities and I have reported it as such.

Do they do any regular organised activities outside of screens? Anything where they can reconnect with their physical selves? Can you give them this opportunity?

Even just reading books (anything about adolescent males) is a good idea

Also some questions to ask either of them:

Do they use Discord? (multiple reports of young men being groomed to transition through this app)

Are they on Reddit? Can you look at which subreddits they're on? (same thing going on there)

Are they fans of anime/manga/other Japanese media? (not attempting to discriminate, these fandoms are breeding grounds for gender ideology amongst young men. You could probably just start a conversation here and branch out - watch episodes with them, what do you think of the female characters in this series, etc. It's worth asking about their media intake in general and the way women are presented)

Are there any specific trans/non binary people they look up to? Can you see videos/social media posts etc from these people and watch them together? (because it's easier to refute the ideology when it's in front of both you and your son)

Would suggest trying to very discreetly investigate the topic of porn use. Especially 'femdom', Japanese animated porn ('hentai') and 'sissification'. I know this is awful to think about as a mother (or as a woman, full-stop!) but it is waaay more accessible to young people than it ever has been before, and has the potential to really alienate people from their bodies.

hmmm. How about a different tact? Let him/her explore their identity. Love them, and let them work it out? Try not to be too judgemental or rely on the critics on here. It's about your child and them exploring what works for them. I hope things work out for you. x

Why are you misgendering a child? Surely that's a hate crime now?

@MishyJDI

hmmm. How about a different tact? Let him/her explore their identity. Love them, and let them work it out? Try not to be too judgemental or rely on the critics on here. It's about your child and them exploring what works for them. I hope things work out for you. x

Op is loving her child. Part of loving a child is parents protecting them. What a smarmy, underhanded critique of ops parenting.

I’m so sorry. This is exhausting. I was in the same position with my child in their late teens. They were sure they wanted to transition. Etc.

After a few months of pandering I sat them down and explained how hard it would be to navigate life and relationships and work with everyone basically not believing them and thinking they were a joke. I explained how hard sexual relationships would be. That most potential lovers would never accept them.

After that my child REALLY WEIRDLY didn’t mention it again. They continued in their “preferred” gender at college but at uni they reverted to their birth gender. We spoke recently and they said they never think about it now and it was just a phase. I’m so glad I wasn’t “affirming” but was honest instead.

I of course disagree BloodinGutters. Part of being a good parent is also allowing a child to explore and recognise your own upbringing and beliefs may be out of touch or need a reflection!

Way too much that is identifying here about a very vulnerable child who could easily be identified by peers, fellow staff or other parents. I don't think this complies with your safeguarding responsibilities and I have reported it as such.

@RepentMotherfucker
How is it identifying?

Do you think that this situation is a rare occurrence?

@MishyJDI

hmmm. How about a different tact? Let him/her explore their identity. Love them, and let them work it out? Try not to be too judgemental or rely on the critics on here. It's about your child and them exploring what works for them. I hope things work out for you. x

Do tell us Mishy. What experience do you have to offer here? You suggest a different tactic. Have you ever tried it? Just letting them experiment, with no other assistance at all?

How did that go?

Enough of your ‘try not to rely on critics on here’. If you have no experience dealing with teenagers who are currrntly coping with a world focused on gender identity, or have not been a teenager with dysphoria either (as some of us also have been), I’d suggest not relying on ‘your’ advice at all as it comes from a place of trying to shame people who actually are or have experience to offer.

There are posters on this thread who are currently or have experienced this. They have some valid insight that you are telling OP to ignore out of your own prejudice against people on this board.

Now is not the place or the time.

Well Hellofabore. (like the name). Yep you have no idea of my experience.

Letting children explore and not being judgemental I have found an effective outcome to their hapiness. Plus support from professionals (not internet armchair bystanders) who get what these kids go through.

So no, this is the time and place. Let them explore, and not be concerned this is some contagion. Trans has been there throughout human history. Giving them the place to explore and work out their direction is not a bad place. And you know what? They will find their way. x

hmmm. How about a different tact? Let him/her explore their identity. Love them, and let them work it out? Try not to be too judgemental or rely on the critics on here. It's about your child and them exploring what works for them. I hope things work out for you. x

I completely agree!

Imagine thinking your transgender (or gay or whatever) spending years fighting with your parents over it who absolutely won’t accept it and then realise you might not be. As a stubborn teen you could never tell your parents that you’ve changed your mind so you’d have to go along with it.
Whereas having a parent who shows support for anything you do even if they don’t agree means a child would be a lot more likely to discuss things with them and tell them that they do or don’t want to do certain things anymore.

Let them explore, and not be concerned this is some contagion.

Although for many many children this clearly is a contagion. To not recognise or understand this fact is pretty foolish.

Zebradanio: Not sure how you conclude this is a contagion to be honest. Versus accepting these differences have always been there and society is just more enlightened these days to acknowledge that.

From all I have seen, transgender regret statistics are sub 1%.

The evidence is out there Mishy. I know some people don't like to hear that.

Just wanted to say the following mirrors where I’m at, and I know we’re not the only ones.
The fact that the parent/school relationship has become like this is tragic.

I feel like I go into schools prepped for war. I get everything emailed or minutes or send follow up emails if a conversation wasn’t minuted. I can quote school policies and d of e guidelines and laws at them if put on the spot. I am recording everything so it’s ready for formal complaints if necessary. I’m obsessively pedantic about not letting anything slip past us and I know they think I’m fussing over nothing but I can’t understand how they find it difficult to follow d of e guidance. I have such little tolerance for stupidity, and I’m not waiting until they’ve groomed my kids