Great. Son now says he’s trans.

[dangermouseisace]

I am doing my best non judgemental listening but oh my god.

Middle child is “non binary”. Eldest today says the reason he’s not eating properly and why he was unhappy 4 years ago is because he’ll never be happy as a man, and he wants hormones surgery the lot.

I have been clear about my opinion re gender throughout their lives. I am glad they feel able to speak to me but I don’t know what to do. I’ve said I’ll book him a dr’s appointment, and suggested counselling. I feel it’s a case of too much internet but it’s hard to control that- they find old devices if you put restrictions on, and everything works off the internet these days.

My children clearly have their struggles but I feel a failure as a mother as I don’t feel strong enough to deal with them. I’ve already had time off work with stress this week. I feel I just cannot cope with anything any more. What the hell can I do?

Thanks for all your messages and reassurance/advice/soldarity and criticism too.

To clarify: my son hasn't requested any pronoun change. He told me today, as he'd been hinting for a few days that something was “up” and so we went for a walk. My non binary child uses they them and I try and stick to that when they are about. When they are not, or I am online, I can do as I wish. My son doesn't have an eating disorder...hes been eating less for about a week. After our chat he seems more enthusiastic about food! He eats a lot normally but is still skinny, like many teens.

My kids are 15 and 13 (have 11year old too).

Gender: I've always been clear its a social construction and have encouraged my children to do whatever they want to do and not feel constrained by expectations. Toys were toys- fire engine, pink cooker, no constraints and wear what you want. I am not at all girly and their dad (my ex) is not particularly masculine. We each have quite a few gay/lesbian and generally gender non conforming friends. We are of the opinion that sex is fixed, whatever you do to your body, and that male and female bodies are different but intellectually there is no difference. There are no “man” jobs or “woman” jobs, hobbies(except things that require a particular sex).

I took my 15 year old to the GP a few years ago as I've been sure he's autistic since he was a baby. The GP dismissed it as he made eye contact, which I know is bollocks. He doesn't think he is autistic, just that he has social anxiety. The school were meant to be doing something but then covid happened, and with the new regimentation in school, he became much happier, and we let it slide.

Until last week he was acting on the whole, very stereotypically male (only likes men's football not women, interested in cars and eating meat) and has done so since oooh about age 4 through choice.

I’m shocked, shocked I tell you that our resident “you big meanies/beeee kiiind/they just want to pee” have appeared on this thread rather than any of the ones around e.g. men in womens prisons or sport or woman’s right to centre themselves in campaigns against make violence

I think the pronouns are the least of ops worries right now. Why are some people so keen to ignore ops valid concerns about her child and focus only on pronouns.

@Maskless

I think that the question parents in your position need to ask is, 'If I were raising this child (in your case these two children) on a remote Scottish island with no internet or TV, would they still be "trans"?'

Or 'If I were raising this child (in your case these two children) fifty years ago, when they had never heard about trans, would they still be "trans"?

I think we all know the answer.

This dangerous nonsense can only continue if we continue to enable it.

have you read a book called "Gallileo's Middle finger"?

@ElliottSmithsfingers
🤣. How eloquently put!

@BloodinGutters I remember watching an episode of Dr Phil once where a women had an intense feeling that she was supposed to be blind...she identified as blind! She poured a toxic substance into her eyes to bring about blindness and on the show everyone, including Dr Phil, was completely shocked. They couldn't agree with her actions and he was clear it was a mental health issue.

Some weeks later, a family came on who were struggling with their daughter insisting she should be a boy. The family was fractured, with lots of hostility and aggression. Dr Phil made no mention of these possible causes as to why the girl felt the way she did...he actually affirmed her delusion and referred to her as he!

My own thoughts are many, many people who affirm children's immature decisions and delusions are either doing it to be seen as 'understanding' with no regard for who they affect, or they are taking pleasure in the abuse of children and the breakdown of the family. The result is the same.

@Theunamedcat

If I affirmed everything my autistic child declared themselves to be they would be a girl a cat a boy a cat a black cat a big cat a small cat

Now I could affirm everything and get him whisker implants

But I will not

Yes, I would go with this comment.

My feeling is, and I'm going to ignore anyone who shoots me down on this one...

...during the pandemic fifty per cent or more of us have had mental healht issues of one kind or another, fleeting or temporary...

fifty per cent of young people have had them or are having them.

A totally normal part of adolescence has always been the search for identity as many psychologists will understand.

A young persons identity often changes throughout adolescence.

The OP sounds like a very tolerant mother and I feel for her.

I also understand that she is very nuturing of her kids rights to define themselves as they wish going forward.

As a contrast, (and I've said this to my own DD when she had similar struggles)

I know of one parent (who is not my friend I might add) who told her daughter that if she defined herself as a lesbian she would burn in hell...

The OP is not that kind of parent, but sounds stressed, and it is not surprising as we are stil in the middle of a pandemmic and in some ways, sexuality is the last thing on a parents mind right now..

First and foremost concerned with making ends meet, creating a home.

Where is the discussion about this MOTHER'S identity, wellbeing and her freedom to express her own sexuality as she sees fit?

Some of these posts are mother blaming par excellence.

Hang in there OP you are doing great.

Where do you think the idea has come from OP? Are there a lot of trans identifying children at the school? Or is it the internet? If so, how easy would it be to remove all devices?

@Zebradanio

I think the pronouns are the least of ops worries right now. Why are some people so keen to ignore ops valid concerns about her child and focus only on pronouns.

Maybe because piling in on a mother using any flimflam excuse you can find is so much more fun than addressing challenging issues of child mental health, social contagion and online grooming ? Just a suggestion.

@dangermouseisace

I posted on a guest post earlier today about my own experience with my two sons that claim to be trans. In my case, it was entirely led by pornography and online grooming. It has a very bad ending for us and my son is now in his early twenties with a conviction for sex offences. I'm on my phone so can't find it right note but if you search my name you should find it. It's destroyed our family.

And before the liberals come out saying I'm blaming trans people, that's absolutely not what I'm doing. My son was groomed on the internet and will pay the price for the rest of his life. Adult men that "felt" female groomed him from a very young age for their own validation and now my family is in tatters and wet may never recover from this.

I’d ask lots of gentle questions and listen. Why have things changed in the last week? Has he been discussing this with anyone else online or in his peer group? How does he think his life would be different ‘living as a girl’? Is there anything bothering him at home or at school? Is it related to his non-binary sibling?

If I think back to my teens, there was a lot about myself that I thought I knew but in fact I was still learning. I’d also say that even when I was a teen there was a lot of pressure but that’s increased a hundred-fold now.

Yes he abuses women onstage and then uses Robin's charity for abused women to 'clear' him of any accusations of misogyny.😡 I was still shocked at the difference in his 'professional opinion' between the blinded woman and the girl who thought she should be a boy. He couldn't see the connection because he is paid not to see it.

So, hopefully all the scolds will take note that the OP is using the pronouns her children prefer.

And apologise. Yes?

The other thing to remember that a huge majority of those that think they are trans will desist once they are a bit older and get non affirming help( about 85%) some of the others who go further will detransition , so there is not a lot of evidence that you will have to deal with this for ever. Most of feel that we would not be doing our parental job properly if we 1) reject our children 2) believe and affirm everything they might feel or say at a particularly confusing time for most teenagers.good luck. You are definitely not alone. Take no notice of those that have their own agenda.

I remember your posts DeJaDont I've worked with teenagers for decades and they all make mistakes. Some of them catastrophic. We always hope that they learn - and sometimes they do. And sometimes - especially with sexual offences - their learning includes massive negative consequences for their future lives.
This is the first time that I am aware of, that the education system has allowed (mainly) adult males involved in sexual politics to directly access children in schools and sell their personal versions of a complex ideology to them. If you add to that the tsunami of porn and age inappropriate material children are able to access online, it's no wonder we have children of all ages stressing about whether they might be the wrong sex - and certain adults gleefully encouraging them.

I'm so sorry about what happened to your son.

You always pop up here with your veiled threats and cheap insults. Don't you have anything useful to add?

@dangermouseisace

Thanks for all your messages and reassurance/advice/soldarity and criticism too.

To clarify: my son hasn't requested any pronoun change. He told me today, as he'd been hinting for a few days that something was “up” and so we went for a walk. My non binary child uses they them and I try and stick to that when they are about. When they are not, or I am online, I can do as I wish. My son doesn't have an eating disorder...hes been eating less for about a week. After our chat he seems more enthusiastic about food! He eats a lot normally but is still skinny, like many teens.

My kids are 15 and 13 (have 11year old too).

Gender: I've always been clear its a social construction and have encouraged my children to do whatever they want to do and not feel constrained by expectations. Toys were toys- fire engine, pink cooker, no constraints and wear what you want. I am not at all girly and their dad (my ex) is not particularly masculine. We each have quite a few gay/lesbian and generally gender non conforming friends. We are of the opinion that sex is fixed, whatever you do to your body, and that male and female bodies are different but intellectually there is no difference. There are no “man” jobs or “woman” jobs, hobbies(except things that require a particular sex).

I took my 15 year old to the GP a few years ago as I've been sure he's autistic since he was a baby. The GP dismissed it as he made eye contact, which I know is bollocks. He doesn't think he is autistic, just that he has social anxiety. The school were meant to be doing something but then covid happened, and with the new regimentation in school, he became much happier, and we let it slide.

Until last week he was acting on the whole, very stereotypically male (only likes men's football not women, interested in cars and eating meat) and has done so since oooh about age 4 through choice.

Have you combed through your schools policies and pshe plan/resources/outside agencies?

Visiting secondaries recently has meant i’ve found out some very fucked up policies that I know parents have zero idea of (posted earlier in the week, but have nc-although going for distillers songs currently so easy to trace). Even when primary agrees on the importance of following the d of e guidance it turns out in practice they really don’t grasp how to address gender identity without breaching the guidance.

So you should check. While lots of the social contagion comes from internet and peers, it is possibly the first social contagion that is also promoted by schools, either intentionally or negligently. And that does unthinkable harm. So check through your kids school policies and pshe plan and if they are in stonewall diversity champions scheme and if they use other outside organisations that aren’t working together compliant and if they have lgbt+ clubs that are basically a front for stonewalling the kids.

If there’s any chance it’s school this is coming from then take action. Use safe school alliance and transgender trend resources to complain. Follow it up formally if you have to. And if you’re completely sure it’s not school get them on board supporting him to dismantle ideas based on harmful stereotypes.

Well, I might be a dinosaur but I don't discuss "gender" with my DC. They are the sex they were born and, unlike the OP, I am "not clear about my opinion about gender" because I will not be a party to that dangerous shite entering my house.

There is no opinion on what sex they are because their sex is a fact. and I don't invite them to discuss what pro-nouns or whether they are binary or non binary.

It may crawl in some other way, through the internet but there will be no fluffy chats about it, when they are children or teenagers with raging hormones because I won't be encouraging dangerous shit that will leave them fucked up for ever more.

In most cases, this crap will go away if it doesn't find fertile ground to take root in.

I hope you get it sorted out OP but my advice, which you probably won't take and others will throw derision on, is to tell them to stop being so bloody melodramatic!

Some people may feel they are trapped in the wrong body but most teenagers are jumping on a band waggon, aided and abetted by those who should know better.

I hope this hasn't insulted anyone but I do feel that an atmosphere abounds in which children are encouraged to think about their "gender" in a way they just wouldn't do if they weren't encouraged.

@Abhannmor

You always pop up here with your veiled threats and cheap insults. Don't you have anything useful to add?

A reply to @CorrBlimeyGG

@CorrBlimeyGG

You'll only fail them if you reject them for what they are. Some people are transgender. Accept it or lose your child (and give your head one massive shake).

Bollllllllllllocks.

@MrsOvertonsWindow

I remember your posts DeJaDont I've worked with teenagers for decades and they all make mistakes. Some of them catastrophic. We always hope that they learn - and sometimes they do. And sometimes - especially with sexual offences - their learning includes massive negative consequences for their future lives. This is the first time that I am aware of, that the education system has allowed (mainly) adult males involved in sexual politics to directly access children in schools and sell their personal versions of a complex ideology to them. If you add to that the tsunami of porn and age inappropriate material children are able to access online, it's no wonder we have children of all ages stressing about whether they might be the wrong sex - and certain adults gleefully encouraging them.

I'm so sorry about what happened to your son.

This is a really sensible comment and I agree one hundred percent.

It's very hard. I do think that there's so much pressure on kids to ‘experiment’. DD started secondary school last September. She was just 11. In under a year she has told me if you don't experiment it means your are homophobic, transphobic. I under a year she has declared she is gay, then bisexual, then non-binary and now pansexual. She has now told me she's also trans. Now if DD feels that way I will be there, it doesn't change who she is. But I worry that she has experienced all of these feelings with such intensity but don't want her to think I wouldn't support her. She told me she's trans yet an hour later is asking me for make up a dress for a party. When I questioned what made her feel like this she can't tell me. She has 6 close friends who have all come out in a variety of ways. It's a really difficult thing to approach because you want to support your children but at the same time I don't want her to make any huge decisions that are hard to take back.

@YearsSinceISawYou

Well, I might be a dinosaur but I don't discuss "gender" with my DC. They are the sex they were born and, unlike the OP, I am "not clear about my opinion about gender" because I will not be a party to that dangerous shite entering my house.

There is no opinion on what sex they are because their sex is a fact. and I don't invite them to discuss what pro-nouns or whether they are binary or non binary.

It may crawl in some other way, through the internet but there will be no fluffy chats about it, when they are children or teenagers with raging hormones because I won't be encouraging dangerous shit that will leave them fucked up for ever more.

In most cases, this crap will go away if it doesn't find fertile ground to take root in.

I hope you get it sorted out OP but my advice, which you probably won't take and others will throw derision on, is to tell them to stop being so bloody melodramatic!

Some people may feel they are trapped in the wrong body but most teenagers are jumping on a band waggon, aided and abetted by those who should know better.

I hope this hasn't insulted anyone but I do feel that an atmosphere abounds in which children are encouraged to think about their "gender" in a way they just wouldn't do if they weren't encouraged.

I got the impression the op meant she had always explained to them that the sex role stereotypes pushed on girls and boys have nothing inherent with being a girl or boy, and that they should ignore the bs that says if they aren’t masculine enough they must be a girl. As in she’s explained gender ideology is a bunch of make believe and that no more real than Santa Claus.

@eeyore228

Who are these people in the school? How dare they mess about with the minds of children in this way.
What do the other parents think?