Women must resist arrest by any male police officer and demand the presence of a policewoman

[Turquoise11]

I've never posted on mumsnet before but I'm compelled to after reading reports of the kidnap, rape and murder of Sarah Everard.

Any woman who finds herself in a situation where she faces arrest by a male police officer must resist and obstruct that arrest at all costs. She must not face charges for doing either, since it is potentially dangerous for a woman to be taken away by a male police officer. We can no longer trust the police.

Rather, a woman must be able to demand that a policewoman be present before any arrest takes place. We can no longer assume that there is any rigour in the recruitment process involving male police officers.

Do you think I am being fair? After what happened to Sarah Everard, I think that resisting arrest and insisting a woman be present is essential to women's safety. See below for some recent cases involving the police.

Detective Inspector Neil Corbel was charged with 19 counts of voyeurism in the Greater London, Manchester and Brighton areas.

Wayne Couzens.

Deniz Jaffer and Jamie Lewis taking unofficial pictures of Bibaa Henry and Nicole Smallman after they were stabbed to death.

I’m sure there are more incidents where male police officers hold women in contempt and would harm them if they could.

@ComplaintsComplaintsComplaints

Helpful if I attach the link and screenshot! assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/938360/statistics-on-women-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2019.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiSvKXvvKbzAhW-A2MBHc_7A3IQFnoECAQQBg&usg=AOvVaw17FDjzTYbJ4ifj0_o-SJFG" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">link here

In 2019/20, 640,000 arrests were carried out by police in England and Wales, which has remained stable over the last 3 years following a previously downward trend. Females accounted for 15% of arrests, unchanged since 2015/16. (My estimate is approx. 96,000 arrests involving women.) … In 2019/20, violence against the person and theft offences accounted for the largest proportion of arrests for both males and females

That's interesting although a little odd as the bar diagram clearly shows (for women):
46% violence against the person (as you indicate)
19% theft offences (that probably covers a very broad range I don't fully understand)
08% drug offences
07% criminal damage and arson
07% public order offences (etc.)

For the large scale brawls, I'd hope that several officers would be in attendance and it wouldn't be the lone officer scenario.

This wouldn't work OP. The change which needs to come from this case is that "minor" sex offences need to be taken seriously again.

Won’t resisting arrest just result in more police brutality?
I don’t think this is a solution at all.

I already had a conversation with DS last night on the back of watching the news report and the images of Sarah being kidnapped.

DS has just passed his driving test and I told him not to stop for an unmarked vehicle, instead to drive to the nearest police station or somewhere with CCTV like a petrol station.

If I had a daughter I’d be telling her that if she was approached and “arrested” by a male, not in inform and in an unmarked car, to scream the fucking place down.

According to PACE a cop may only handcuff a suspect if they have an objectively reasonable belief that handcuffing is necessary to prevent the suspect running away or causing harm to themselves or others. You are entitled to ask the police officer why they believe handcuffing is necessary. For me, I’m shocked that he was allowed out and about with his warrant card, police belt and handcuffs. He also ordered handcuff locks from Amazon. I would propose in addition a rule that off duty cops are not allowed any equipment and would re design the handcuffs so you can’t purchase third party locks online.

**The change which needs to come from this case is that "minor" sex offences need to be taken seriously again.

I agree wholeheartedly with this.

**If I had a daughter I’d be telling her that if she was approached and “arrested” by a male, not in inform and in an unmarked car, to scream the fucking place down.

But I also agree with this.

More female police officers would be an obvious solution, but the reality is a lot of women wouldn’t want to become police officers, because the majority of the criminals you’d deal with are men, often violent and dangerous men.

Saying something is "unworkable" means it's currently unworkable now. We cannot turn around and say that as of tomorrow morning, lone male officers cannot arrest lone females.

There are not enough police officers to always work in pairs, and there are not enough female police officers to attend every arrest of a lone female. If this was instituted tomorrow it would be chaos.

That's not to say that the underlying suggestion isn't good. The police need to get immensely better at their vetting process, they need to get immensely better at their internal policing, they need to get immensely better at understanding how to deal with the public perception that the police are a threat.

But with the police as vastly underfunded and understaffed as it is, a knee-jerk reaction like this will actually have a negative effect. Police officers are already overworked and under enormous stress and all we will see is officers leaving in droves, which will exacerbate the problems.

We need this public reaction to the horror of Sarah's death. We need a wider conversation about the police. But as with everything else in the UK, it needs money to fix. We need to force the government to have this conversation and find the money.

We are moving towards a situation similar to America where people just do not trust the police to keep them safe.

Black people assume the police will shoot them before they’ve even had a chance to speak. We are now to assume as women we may be abducted and murdered if stopped and arrested. Personally I have told everyone I know, including my kids to No Comment in any interview the police want to conduct. They never want to hear you’re side, what they want to do is build a case against you with your words helping them to do so.

In this situation I just wish she’d kicked up a stink and caused a crowd to form. We are too bloody timid in the face of authority. After this case they’d have to drag me kicking and screaming into a police car and I’d hope a passer by might have questioned the copper and potentially saved her life.

*your not you’re

I’m shocked that he was allowed out and about with his warrant card

Police officers are not employees who clock on and off. They are not seen as "off duty" at any point. They don't have to carry their warrant cards with them, but many do as they know they may need it.

As an example, police officers ger highly subsidised travel on many forms of public transport, but the flip side of this is that they are expected to get involved in any troubles on that form of public transport.

@Floisme

You know what, this morning I really don't care if it's workable or not.

I am sick to fucking death of women being expected to put themselves at risk because the alternatives 'aren't workable'.

Me too. After hearing the news yesterday evening, I held my DD very very tight and cried.

I'm probably in a minority of one but I don't even think that video was that bad. Coming in cold to a situation, officer sees colleague being attacked. Might suspect a knife. Neutralises situation with presumably no long term effects. Was it necessary. No, probably not, but was it excessive? Only marginally.

I'm also extremely angry today. I don't know what the solution is, but I think police forces need to be making a huge visible, loud effort right now to reassure women, and they can start by reviewing and issuing very public guidance on the rules around being arrested, and what our rights are.

I don't want to make life harder for the majority of the honest rank and file, but the police as a whole need to get their house in order.

they can start by reviewing and issuing very public guidance on the rules around being arrested, and what our rights are.

They can start by taking the decals off their cars that visibly demonstrate they're signed up to an ideology that has no respect for women's rights at all.

I don't want to make life harder for the majority of the honest rank and file, but the police as a whole need to get their house in order.

tbh, retaining the police officers who had had questionable conversations about women via their WhatsApp was not a good look. According to previous threads, members of the police force are fully represented amongst those who practice intimate partner violence.

Blue-sky again. What would happen to the culture if a large number of women were trained and employed as chaperones?

Pasted from an article in the Telegraph by Caroline Criado-Perez

The framing of Couzens as an isolated bad egg is also hard to swallow. Between 2019 and 2020, 160 officers in the Met alone have been accused of sexual assault, sexual harassment and other forms of sexual misconduct. Only four people have been either “suspended or restricted” as a result. A Freedom of Information request earlier this month found that in the four years to 2020, more than half of Met officers found guilty of sexual misconduct have kept their jobs. This month, another Met officer has been in court charged with 19 voyeurism offences.

I have told my daughters not to accept arrest by a sole officer. I will not do so myself. Frankly I don't ever expect any of us to do anything to merit arrest and that's the point. Neither did Sarah.
After this case I would hope any lone male policeman would detain at the scene and request officers attend before trying to move a lone female. They must know how terrifying this is.
So we make a fuss, we make a noise, we refuse to move, we attract attention and we support other lone women we see in this position. Because if the police are on the level then it's no issue to get somebody else, a marked car etc. What's the worse that can happen? Resisting arrest in these circumstances or what happened to Sarah. Women need to be heard, be loud,make your presence felt. That's the way to safety in an unsafe world.

Re the video of the 15 year old. I have every sympathy for Sarah Everard. However I have absolutely no sympathy for this girl who got kicked. She was actually assaulting a police officer who doing his job. No one except scum would think it acceptable to do this to a police officer. I don't care if I get slammed for this.

Just told my daughter the same - resist arrest or being taken for questioning by a lone male officer.

I live in France and I don't think I've ever seen a lone police officer here, they're always in pairs. Obviously that doesn't mean some police don't do bad things, still, but it's a start at least.

Parm Sandhu - former Met police chief superintendent has just said on sky that her advice to women is not to get into an unmarked with a male officer and that all people (whether prisoners or not) should only be transported in a marked police car. She said the officer should call for a marked car

I have told my daughters not to accept arrest by a sole officer. I will not do so myself. Frankly I don't ever expect any of us to do anything to merit arrest and that's the point. Neither did Sarah.
After this case I would hope any lone male policeman would detain at the scene and request officers attend before trying to move a lone female. They must know how terrifying this is.
So we make a fuss, we make a noise, we refuse to move, we attract attention and we support other lone women we see in this position. Because if the police are on the level then it's no issue to get somebody else, a marked car etc. What's the worse that can happen? Resisting arrest in these circumstances or what happened to Sarah. Women need to be heard, be loud,make your presence felt. That's the way to safety in an unsafe world.

THIS

@AwaAnBileYerHeid

Re the video of the 15 year old. I have every sympathy for Sarah Everard. However I have absolutely no sympathy for this girl who got kicked. She was actually assaulting a police officer who doing his job. No one except scum would think it acceptable to do this to a police officer. I don't care if I get slammed for this.

No? You don’t think the flying kick to the stomach was even a tad heavy handed?