Women must resist arrest by any male police officer and demand the presence of a policewoman

[Turquoise11]

I've never posted on mumsnet before but I'm compelled to after reading reports of the kidnap, rape and murder of Sarah Everard.

Any woman who finds herself in a situation where she faces arrest by a male police officer must resist and obstruct that arrest at all costs. She must not face charges for doing either, since it is potentially dangerous for a woman to be taken away by a male police officer. We can no longer trust the police.

Rather, a woman must be able to demand that a policewoman be present before any arrest takes place. We can no longer assume that there is any rigour in the recruitment process involving male police officers.

Do you think I am being fair? After what happened to Sarah Everard, I think that resisting arrest and insisting a woman be present is essential to women's safety. See below for some recent cases involving the police.

Detective Inspector Neil Corbel was charged with 19 counts of voyeurism in the Greater London, Manchester and Brighton areas.

Wayne Couzens.

Deniz Jaffer and Jamie Lewis taking unofficial pictures of Bibaa Henry and Nicole Smallman after they were stabbed to death.

I’m sure there are more incidents where male police officers hold women in contempt and would harm them if they could.

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/national/police-office-who-kicked-15-year-old-girl-to-the-ground-investigated/vi-AAOXKeF?ocid=winp1taskbar

I understand why people are saying this. There have been repeated and gross failings within the police as regards their vetting and their internal complaints policies and it needs reviewing now. No one is going to deny this.

However the quick fix is not to say no woman can be arrested by a solo male police officer. There are not enough police officers to work in pairs, there are not enough female police officers to attend all crimes involving lone females.

It’s not a workable solution.

I hope this case results in changes. The changes I would like to see are:
No single patrols. This would require more money. However, my best friend who is a police officer would welcome this as it puts less pressure on a single officer.

A better vetting process. I've provided a written statement for an officer applying. It's not that different to applying for a shop vacancy. Should be much more rigorous. My husband's Psycho exbest friend got in, despite pretty much everyone in their village knowing he was violent, a pathological liar and a sex pest.

Rigourous yearly psychological tests and appropriate action taken from the results.

Recruiting drives targeting women.

Flexibility in the roles to retain women.

The misogyny addressed in the structure, which often causes women officers to side step into non beat roles.

All this requires money, time and a complete overhaul. Sadly it might never happen.

[quote Jaysmith71]www.msn.com/en-gb/news/national/police-office-who-kicked-15-year-old-girl-to-the-ground-investigated/vi-AAOXKeF?ocid=winp1taskbar[/quote]
Wtf did I just watch!? What planet is that guy on? Does he think he's in the Karate Kid or something? How on earth can that be ok?

He was clearly taller and stronger than her, he could easily have restrained her.

Where do you propose all these female officers come from? They're under represented in police forces generally.

Excellent suggestions by BelleOfTheProvince. The recruiting of women is essential as would be the vast improvement in the vetting process.

I realise the presence of a policewoman may not be possible currently. Perhaps a woman facing arrest should be allowed to call a relative or friend to accompany her before being escorted away by a lone policeman.

I was talking to my DP about this last night. I've seen the other thread saying women need to demand a female officer on the scene before submitting to arrest. I wonder if it's as simple as a marked police car.

Couzens was in a plain car, which some police officers do drive on duty although generally not uniformed officers. I think if it was me, I now wouldn't trust the officer unless he was in a marked car. One, it is further proof that they are actually an officer (I wouldn't know the difference between a real warrant card and a fake one) and two, it would prove that the officer is actually on duty. I wonder if it would be deemed reasonable for a woman to resist arrest now unless the officer was in a marked car?

Obviously we need massive changes in wider society etc before women can even start to think they are not permanently at risk, but if we can't even trust the uniformed men who are supposed to be there to protect us then what the hell are we supposed to do?

You know what, this morning I really don't care if it's workable or not.

I am sick to fucking death of women being expected to put themselves at risk because the alternatives 'aren't workable'.

Unmarked cars are used for a purpose though.
For example, those in the missing children/teens/runaways gig use unmarked cars more often because otherwise they are spotted and avoided(this is a big deal, there's a whole department that deals with this)
Ditto traffic police. Unmarked cars are vital to spot those committing offences.

@Turquoise11

I've never posted on mumsnet before but I'm compelled to after reading reports of the kidnap, rape and murder of Sarah Everard.

Any woman who finds herself in a situation where she faces arrest by a male police officer must resist and obstruct that arrest at all costs. She must not face charges for doing either, since it is potentially dangerous for a woman to be taken away by a male police officer. We can no longer trust the police.

Rather, a woman must be able to demand that a policewoman be present before any arrest takes place. We can no longer assume that there is any rigour in the recruitment process involving male police officers.

Do you think I am being fair? After what happened to Sarah Everard, I think that resisting arrest and insisting a woman be present is essential to women's safety. See below for some recent cases involving the police.

Detective Inspector Neil Corbel was charged with 19 counts of voyeurism in the Greater London, Manchester and Brighton areas.

Wayne Couzens.

Deniz Jaffer and Jamie Lewis taking unofficial pictures of Bibaa Henry and Nicole Smallman after they were stabbed to death.

I’m sure there are more incidents where male police officers hold women in contempt and would harm them if they could.

I am sorry, but this is insane. Yes there are a very low number of incidents involving police officers, yes I think there needs to be more psychological testing and supervision of police officers, but no, it would be absolutely insane for everyone woman to be able to resist arrest with no consequences.

You don't instigate a policy completely disproportional to the situation.

That video was disgusting, and I think there’s loads of this about. Although once upon a time I worked for the police and there are some wonderful officers out there, (also some awful bullying, sexist officers too). The best officers seemed to be from armed response (they have to be critical thinkers and calm before reacting though) and neighbourhood bobbies (less of them around these days unfortunately).

Yes Turquoise11 you are right, this has to be the way forward. There are fewer women police officers but then again there are fewer women committing the kind of crimes which might require being handcuffed and immediately carted off.

Perfectly reasonable!

Women can’t even trust police officers to not rape and murder, so asking for a woman to be present is totally fair.

Unfortunately there are not a lot of police women, but this could be a great drive to recruit more.

Women have every right to be concerned and afraid. We also have every right that the police install some form of safeguarding so that this does not happen again.

@Floisme

You know what, this morning I really don't care if it's workable or not.

I am sick to fucking death of women being expected to put themselves at risk because the alternatives 'aren't workable'.

THIS 👆🏼

@BelleOfTheProvince

Unmarked cars are used for a purpose though. For example, those in the missing children/teens/runaways gig use unmarked cars more often because otherwise they are spotted and avoided(this is a big deal, there's a whole department that deals with this) Ditto traffic police. Unmarked cars are vital to spot those committing offences.

Certainly, but I've read multiple people today saying that an unmarked car shouldn't pull you over or make an arrest unless there is at least one uniformed officer in the car. Does anyone know if there's any truth to this?

You know what, this morning I really don't care if it's workable or not.

I with you

twitter.com/BylineTimes/status/1439896331384930308

More Than Half of Met Police Officers Found Guilty Of Sexual Misconduct Kept their Jobs

To be honest I am just so sad with how much Sarah was let down by the people who were supposed to protect her at every stage.
This was also enabled by that ridiculous covid law. He clearly chose this time because of course normally you'd be suspicious of someone who arrested you when you had committed no crime.
She was let down by the lack of foresight in implementing that law.
Sh3 was let down by the colleagues that didn't whistle blow.
She was let down by the indecent exposure crime being processed too slowly.
She was let down by the minimisation of such crimes.
She was let down by society by putting the burden of keeping safe on women.

No more.

@Floisme

You know what, this morning I really don't care if it's workable or not.

I am sick to fucking death of women being expected to put themselves at risk because the alternatives 'aren't workable'.

This!

A chaperone service for arrests?

I share the anger.

I'm going to phrase this carefully although this is the 'right' section of MN and FWR.

there are fewer women committing the kind of crimes which might require being handcuffed and immediately carted off.

Many of us are aware that bad cases make bad law and this provision would be gamed in a heartbeat.

She was let down by the indecent exposure crime being processed too slowly

Even if he was found guilty of this, there was a fair chance he would have kept his job

[quote Jaysmith71]www.msn.com/en-gb/news/national/police-office-who-kicked-15-year-old-girl-to-the-ground-investigated/vi-AAOXKeF?ocid=winp1taskbar[/quote]
What an absolute prick Why didn't he just hold her back?!

Good job she wasn't pregnant, being booted in the stomach like that (article says he kicked her waist but it looked like her stomach).

Think about it!

Women can’t walk at night without being murdered! Sarah Everhard , Sabina Nessa… not only can’t women walk at night, we can’t even be sure the police are not the predators.

It’s a rock and a hard place. So women should just not go out at night at all? Is this the sort of society you want tk live in? After 6pm your can’t leave your home.. we already edit our lives so much as it is. The answer is to have a curfew for women so we can’t walk out at night?

That’s not workable and women should be able to be out without being raped and murdered.

People are always going to tell women don’t go out after dark.. what if we need to get something from the supermarket? What if the dog needs tk be walked? What if we want to go meet a friend for dinner? What are women realistically supposed to do?

If your answer is women don’t go out at night.. so half the population should just be confined after 6pm? That’s workable but asking for safety measures to be in place isn’t workable. I don’t know what the world is coming to.

I'm not sad. I don't feel I have any right to be sad. I'm fucking furious.

And I'm annoyed that here we are, yet again, trying to work out a solution to male violence.

Me, I'm with the op. And if I had a daughter, I'd sure as hell be advising her to resist as well.

Yep, totally agree OP.

We need to have loud and long public conversation about this and to let everyone know, women and police alike, that it's ok to resist arrest under dodgy circumstances.

Friend on missing children picks up runaways on their own all the time. I think is usually in uniform but don't know the rule. Will ask.
I don't know if different departments have different rules though?