Women must resist arrest by any male police officer and demand the presence of a policewoman

[Turquoise11]

I've never posted on mumsnet before but I'm compelled to after reading reports of the kidnap, rape and murder of Sarah Everard.

Any woman who finds herself in a situation where she faces arrest by a male police officer must resist and obstruct that arrest at all costs. She must not face charges for doing either, since it is potentially dangerous for a woman to be taken away by a male police officer. We can no longer trust the police.

Rather, a woman must be able to demand that a policewoman be present before any arrest takes place. We can no longer assume that there is any rigour in the recruitment process involving male police officers.

Do you think I am being fair? After what happened to Sarah Everard, I think that resisting arrest and insisting a woman be present is essential to women's safety. See below for some recent cases involving the police.

Detective Inspector Neil Corbel was charged with 19 counts of voyeurism in the Greater London, Manchester and Brighton areas.

Wayne Couzens.

Deniz Jaffer and Jamie Lewis taking unofficial pictures of Bibaa Henry and Nicole Smallman after they were stabbed to death.

I’m sure there are more incidents where male police officers hold women in contempt and would harm them if they could.

**I am sorry, but this is insane.

I disagree that it’s insane.

I think a woman should insist on having a chaperone.

Also I wonder what the actual law is around handcuffing a compliant prisoner. I was arrested once and the police officer didn't even handcuff me because I was happy to go with him and he clearly didn't feel I was a threat.

I suppose it's not in a coppers interest to not handcuff someone, particularly as in this case it was a car and not proper van where the prisoner can be contained safely.

Just musings on my part, I'm well aware of what is faced by women and girls on a daily basis but something about this case has really got to me and I want to see change.

I know Wayne Couzens was acting as a lone wolf but I agree with pp about phasing out single police patrols. It's important to find the money. Police should work in pairs. This will help female police officers being placed in such threatening situations . And they can keep an eye on each other as well as the public at large.

Op, I know where you are coming from but, it's unworkable. There are too few female police officers, at least where I live. Sadly, after what happened to Sarah, you may find fewer women want to join. The reality is we need MORE women to join. Women contribute loads in the job of a police officer and have much to offer. The other difficulty being the police force is not a family- friendly job. It's hard to be a serving police officer with children, unless you have really good childcare or your partner works different hours and can help with childcare.

Perhaps a woman facing arrest should be allowed to call a relative or friend to accompany her before being escorted away by a lone policeman
Seriously?
There would be a riot with some of the feral families that roam my town if they knew a lone copper had "one of theirs"

@EmbarrassingAdmissions

A chaperone service for arrests?

I share the anger.

I'm going to phrase this carefully although this is the 'right' section of MN and FWR.

there are fewer women committing the kind of crimes which might require being handcuffed and immediately carted off.

Many of us are aware that bad cases make bad law and this provision would be gamed in a heartbeat.

I suppose it makes it essential that womanhood be defined by sex. We can’t go on ignoring this.

Crimes must be recorded by sex not gender. The criminal justice system must be grounded in reality for safeguarding, for reliable statistics, for justice itself.

Police officers must be categorised as women or men on the basis of their sex not whichever uniform or hairstyle they prefer and the same must be applied for those who are being arrested.

There is no other way this can work. My personal sense of self does not trump your physical safety.

There are too few female police officers, at least where I live.

Changes need to happen to turn this around.
It's not unworkable. There are obvious solutions to every single one of your points.

Just because they don't want to change doesn't mean they can't.

Agree 100% - and rather than shaking heads and talking about why it's not possible the police and the Govt should be immediately making it happen. I am fucking sick and tired of having to consider my safety - and that of my daughter - during every single interaction with a man (of whatever variety), every single day.

Belle- I agree but change costs money. The police have been underfunded for years. More women need to join, that to me is the answer. Sadly many leave after having children as the shifts are horrendous.

It’s only an unworkable suggestion if you accept that the safety of the woman being arrested isn’t the top priority. There are lots of ways it could be made to work if you start from that point.

Resources would have to be shifted from elsewhere with a newly deemed lower priority, and it would depend if people accepted that.

And part of the reason the police are in underfunded is they are not a priority in the current government.

Yet women can't vote for the opposition because they are actively dismantling safeguarding for women.

It's a rock and a hard place.

Being a police officer isn't just a job it's almost a lifestyle. There is no work life balance. There are many women who join the job and who are excellent officers but once they have children they leave because they don't want to miss out on their family growing up.
Rest days are cancelled at the drop of a hat, you can't guarantee that you will finish on time, you get posted across the other side of the county, or end up on mutual aid for another force. You can't just say you can't do it because you have to do it.

@Thurlow

I understand why people are saying this. There have been repeated and gross failings within the police as regards their vetting and their internal complaints policies and it needs reviewing now. No one is going to deny this.

However the quick fix is not to say no woman can be arrested by a solo male police officer. There are not enough police officers to work in pairs, there are not enough female police officers to attend all crimes involving lone females.

It’s not a workable solution.

Well women should make that demand all the same. Would any woman now feel safe being arrested by a lone male police officer?

**Seriously?
There would be a riot with some of the feral families that roam my town if they knew a lone copper had "one of theirs"

Then obviously in that case, another police officer should be called to assist. In other cases a chaperone could work.

But no lone policemen, especially in unmarked cars, should be arresting unaccompanied women. There should be new guidelines.

There was a while, when I did response policing, that I was the only female on a team of about 25. I had to search every single woman who was stopped or arrested.

I am sure that, outside London, there are plain clothes officers working solo but I've never known this to happen anywhere I've worked. Its dangerous for the officers as well as other reasons. (Actually I whole heartedly disagree with lone patrols, full stop, but that's another discussion).

But telling women to resist arrest is both useless and dangerous advice. It won't stop a predator preying, any more than a longer hemline will stop a rapist raping.

If I were blue-skying this, I'd acknowledge that substantial numbers of people are in search of jobs with better pay and conditions than their current one or may be facing redundancy after furlough ended today.

I'd rather like to think there's a niche job opportunity for women of a certain age to chaperone arrests and custody suites. I've no idea what the civilian rates of pay are for police roles.

What would be the job specification for such a chaperone? Would it be another body in the car who doesn't get out until someone is arrested? Or only attends an incident that is known to be non-violent (such as someone detained before arrest for shoplifting or fare-dodging)?

I've no idea of the number of women who are arrested per day, or under what circumstances, or for which crimes. I'd guess shoplifting or low-level drugs or something associated with sex work but I've no idea.

This is a good idea . Certainly there should be a 50 .50 male / female balance in the ranks. Something like a mini dashcam to send video automatically might be a deterrent too. I have no animus against the police btw. My own grandfather was a cop.

About 10 years ago I was stopped by a lone policeman after midnight on a country road for driving a transit van. He said he thought it was suspicious that I was driving a van at midnight in the village where there had been burglaries, his behaviour was a bit “off”and creepy.
I remember thinking about how I would never have stopped for any other man and was glad to drive away.

**I've no idea of the number of women who are arrested per day, or under what circumstances, or for which crimes. I'd guess shoplifting or low-level drugs or something associated with sex work but I've no idea.

Good point here. Data on women’s arrests would be helpful in crafting a workable solution.

@embarrassingadmissions these are UK Government figures. Seems women are far less likely to get arrested than men (which tallies with what I've experienced) and that its most likely to be for violent offending. Again this tallies with my experience; I haven't arrested many women but those that I have were either for drunken nightclub brawls with other women, brawls over a boyfriend with other women, or for aggression against children (least often). There's a handful of shoplifters but in general these aren't dealt with by arrest unless they're a habitual shoplifter who won't attend an interview.

I've never arrested someone for sex work and the Met generally treats prostitution as a welfare and exploitation issue these days.

Helpful if I attach the link and screenshot!
<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/938360/statistics-on-women-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2019.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiSvKXvvKbzAhW-A2MBHc_7A3IQFnoECAQQBg&usg=AOvVaw17FDjzTYbJ4ifj0_o-SJFG" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">link here

@Floisme

You know what, this morning I really don't care if it's workable or not.

I am sick to fucking death of women being expected to put themselves at risk because the alternatives 'aren't workable'.

AMEN.

But, the police doesn't record sex of victims or suspects accurately. So we have no way of knowing how many women are affected by current policing approaches.

Stonewall have achieved a very impressive fudge.

One of the many problems with this as an idea is that it wouldn’t really have stopped Sarah Everard’s murder would it?

He wasn’t in uniform, wasn’t working and had she kicked off, due to him being on his own, it’s likely that passers by would just have thought she was resisting arrest and ignored it anyway.

One of the things the police could do (still wouldn’t have stopped this incident, but would help in many, many others) is make bodycams mandatory and remove the ability for officers to choose when they’re switched on or off. If individual POs know that their cam, plus those of their colleagues near them, will always be recording then they’re much less likely to risk doing something illegal when on duty.

Things like toilet breaks could be accommodated by the officer calling in to the OPs room where the camera could be remotely switched off for a short period and then back on again.

@TheBurmundseyIndustrialEstate

About 10 years ago I was stopped by a lone policeman after midnight on a country road for driving a transit van. He said he thought it was suspicious that I was driving a van at midnight in the village where there had been burglaries, his behaviour was a bit “off”and creepy. I remember thinking about how I would never have stopped for any other man and was glad to drive away.

I've had a few experiences like this when driving between my mothers and my home on the basis that they thought it was suspicious that a lone female would be driving either of the cars that I own... I will not stop in these circumstances and carry on driving to the next manned petrol station etc.

I got a massive bollocking the first time around and was threatened with arrest for failing to stop. Really aggressive chap who I had to make a complaint about. Apparently the fact that I'd rung 999 via bluetooth on my car to advise of the situation, and they'd confirmed it was okay for me to proceed as planned wasn't a mitigating circumstance at all. My wishing to ensure my safety wasn't "normal" and I was being "paranoid for no reason". Clearly not!