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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Lammy… again!

214 replies

Sexnotgender · 29/09/2021 09:49

Apparently an adult male can get a cervix through hormones and surgery!

Who knew?

I’m equally embarrassed for him and bloody livid that this moron is in government.

OP posts:
Sexnotgender · 29/09/2021 15:10

I’m always upset when I don’t get any canvassers at my door.

OP posts:
deadleaves · 29/09/2021 15:12

This movement really is entirely based on words without definitions, isn't it?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 29/09/2021 15:16

Sigh - I want to vote Labour. I want an intelligent, moral and ethical government. But how can anyone vote for a government where MPs who consider themselves fit to govern spout all sorts of inaccurate crap about women's bodies in desperation to silence women because they've got themselves too close to a toxic misogynistic lobby intent on removing women and girl's rights to boundaries.

NecessaryScene · 29/09/2021 15:17

This movement really is entirely based on words without definitions, isn't it?

Drives me fucking nuts.

Not only do I often not know what they're saying, I'm also quite often not sure whether they know what they're saying.

NewMutiny · 29/09/2021 15:20

I think it's really telling that they all know that they are not allowed to say certain things but they don't know why

Craven fools.

thenightsky · 29/09/2021 15:22

Wow, Lammy said on that interview that one in four transpeople COMMIT suicide, not attempt, but COMMIT

That was the point I shouted 'oh do fuck off' at the screen.

bellinisurge · 29/09/2021 15:26

Labour are going to lose the next election.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 29/09/2021 15:27

I'm wearying of being told I'm old-fashioned/bigoted/a dinosaur by people who are clearly both older than me and also speak transinclusive jargon worse than I do.

I speak pseudo-progressive as a native language. I just don't agree with the assumptions it all rests on!

LoislovesStewie · 29/09/2021 15:28

@Doglicks

I went to school with him. He peddles this "born and brought up on the mean streets of Tottenham" nonsense, but he was actually a full boarder at The Kings Cathedral School in Peterborough, and was a chorister in the Cathedral choir. I have a cassette tape of him singing "Old Father Time" in a high soprano solo, from a school play in 1985. Barely went home apart from 3 times a year for 7 years. Then off to Oxford and then Harvard. When exactly was he down living the rough life in the ghetto, that he bases his politics on?

(Sorry that was just an aside from your thread) :-)

I did say this on another thread;he is actually very privileged, but probably fell asleep during biology lessons as he had to get up early to sing in the Cathedral choir!
Lottapianos · 29/09/2021 15:42

Oh good god, that Radio 5 interview! What an arrogant, entitled shithead! He 'identifies as a feminist' - oh well that's alright then. His own race has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the question or with this topic. She called him out on his bullshit, and he knows it's bullshit so didn't have a leg to stand on, so he got nasty. What a bully. Disgusting

MrsOvertonsWindow · 29/09/2021 15:43

@NecessaryScene

This movement really is entirely based on words without definitions, isn't it?

Drives me fucking nuts.

Not only do I often not know what they're saying, I'm also quite often not sure whether they know what they're saying.

They absolutely do not understand what they're saying. If you know where a woman's cervix is, what it's function is in childbirth, then you'd never spout the delusional "transwomen have a cervix". The comment displays a profound level of ignorance and disrespect about women's bodies - as well as an overwhelming sense of male privilege in repeatedly spouting crap.
Jaysmith71 · 29/09/2021 15:43

Lammy said on that interview that one in four transpeople COMMIT suicide, not attempt, but COMMIT

It's all getting very Four Yorkshiremen: I used to get up at four o'clock in the morning, half an hour before I went to bed, commit suicide, then pay mill owner for permission for him to use exclusionary language against me....

thenightsky · 29/09/2021 15:48

She called him out on his bullshit, and he knows it's bullshit so didn't have a leg to stand on, so he got nasty

Yes, towards the end of the interview you could hear the absolute ANGER in his voice. There's a man who doesn't like to hear the word 'no' from a woman. Chilling.

MistandMud · 29/09/2021 15:50

Why is he so keen to campaign for stuff he doesn't understand in the least?

Whatthechicken · 29/09/2021 16:03

What happened to politicians - the people who were so passionate, dedicated and knew their stuff. We might not have agreed with them, but they researched subjects and at least read briefing papers. I can’t believe we are putting up with this level of incompetency from all parties.

I bet if social media wasn’t available for people to give their views, I think we’d be rioting until they sorted out their shit.

PaleGreenGhost · 29/09/2021 16:06

He identifies as a feminist?! Shock

This is an example of exactly why males can't be feminists. I didn't used to see it but I really do now.

NecessaryScene · 29/09/2021 16:07

Why is he so keen to campaign for stuff he doesn't understand in the least?

At this point he's got a lot of sunk costs - he was deeply involved in getting the GRA2004 passed.

Reading his contributions to Hansard debates, he was much the same then as he is now. Very dismissive of concerns, dodging questions, and seeming to believe that transwomen are in some metaphysical way "women" and that transition is a magical process.

Here are a couple of his bits:

(on third spaces) The Government also believe that separate facilities for minority groups are objectionable, and we urge the House to reject the proposal. For obvious reasons, many hon. Members fought to ensure that separate signs for minorities became a thing of the past in South Africa, and we did not engage in that fight in order to set up such prejudice over here.

And this exchange is good:

Andrew Selous: First, let me say what the new clause is not about. It is right and proper that transsexual people should use changing and washing facilities appropriate to their acquired gender. That is what should happen and I am confident that in a vast and overriding number of cases it will happen without difficulty. However, as the measure will give legal recognition, in all cases, to the acquired gender, I want the House to consider, and the Minister to explain, what would happen if someone had a gender recognition certificate but had not undergone sex reassignment surgery and wanted to cause difficulties to the management of the facilities.

(Selous goes on to cite a real-world example of a "transwoman" with a beard who sued a church for not being able to go to a "ladies prayer meeting", and wonders what would happen if such a person was refused entry to women's showers, changing rooms etc... Various dismissals, then...)

Mr. Lammy: The hon. Gentleman will know that under the Bill a person would have to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria, to have lived with the condition for two years, to demonstrate that there was some permanence in the condition and to convince the panel that they merited a gender recognition certificate. He is right to suggest that that may not always mean that they had undergone an operation—there could be medical reasons for that—but those are substantial hurdles to overcome and that is the purpose of the Bill.

Lynne Jones: To be candid, if the hon. Gentleman is suggesting that someone who sports a full beard would have their application for a gender recognition certificate granted, I wonder what world he is living in.

Andrew Selous: The hon. Lady attacks me for raising the issue, but on several occasions over the years the House has not foreseen potential developments. I fully accept that the vast majority of transsexual people will not want to go down that route, but there is always the litigious minority to deal with. I am keen to avoid public resentment and concern.

Mr. Lammy: The hon. Gentleman keeps talking about a litigious minority. I remind him that there are more than 60 million people in this country and only about 5,000 transsexuals, and the Bill contains a number of hurdles. For example, the person concerned must have had gender dysphoria, and as my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak (Lynne Jones) explained, persons with that condition do not want to be exposed in public in that way. Surely, therefore, the hon. Gentleman's preoccupation with the minority becomes redundant. Has he not argued himself out of the position from which he started?

ColourMagic · 29/09/2021 16:07

@Jaysmith71

Lammy said on that interview that one in four transpeople COMMIT suicide, not attempt, but COMMIT

It's all getting very Four Yorkshiremen: I used to get up at four o'clock in the morning, half an hour before I went to bed, commit suicide, then pay mill owner for permission for him to use exclusionary language against me....

I heard him say "commit suicide" too. Can you remember which interview he said that in?
NapoleonOzmolysis · 29/09/2021 16:37

It's clear he doesn't know what he's saying, what with the 'hormones grow cervixes but probably not ovaries' bollocks. But to be on record saying there are only 5000 transsexuals in the UK but then say those 5000 are committing suicide at the rate of 1 in 4 - surely any idiot can do the maths and work out that if he's not talking more bollocks then at some point he's thrown women's rights under the bus for about 2 people.

OvaHere · 29/09/2021 16:44

I wonder what world he is living in.

2021 is what world he's living in thanks to you lot.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 29/09/2021 16:50

NecessaryScene

Reading his contributions to Hansard debates, he was much the same then as he is now. Very dismissive of concerns, dodging questions, and seeming to believe that transwomen are in some metaphysical way "women" and that transition is a magical process.

Wow, you're not wrong.

If I may remind you all, David Lammy showed he was aware that Muslim women might wear particular clothing in accordance with their faith just today on Radio 4. He said he found Boris Johnson's comments on the subject offensive. Fair enough, so do I.

Now, let's go back to 2004

Andrew Selous: The hon. Gentleman picks a specific example and it is not for us to speculate what would happen in an individual church—[Interruption.]No, I will address that point. It is, rightly, an established custom in many different Churches to have male prayer groups and female prayer groups. They are sensitive flowers, which grow up over a period of time and inwhich confidences are shared. People do not share intimate details of their life unless they have confidence that what they share will be respected, and there are some issues that men prefer to discuss with other men and women prefer to discuss with other women.

Mr. Lammy: Oh, please!

Andrew Selous: The Minister seems to have an objection to that. It may not be the custom in the Churches of which he has knowledge, but it is the custom in Churches up and down the country. All I am saying is that we need a degree of sensitivity to the situation, which is not too much to ask.

How utterly dismissive is that? Lammy certainly didn't think about Muslim women then, eh. And how they might wish to have a group where they could discuss without covering?

Special shout out for Glenda Jackson, who decided that women having the right to associate without males being there was just like women being subjected to Female Genital Mutilation or being stoned to death for adultery.

Glenda Jackson (Hampstead and Highgate) (Lab)

Is the hon. Gentleman arguing that if a religious belief carries with it an acceptance of a practice—such as female circumcision, polygamy or stoning to death a woman taken in adultery—it should be outside civil law and this House should allow it to be part of the structure of this country or should not voice any criticism of other countries where such practices take place?

Passmeamenuatthetottenham · 29/09/2021 17:16

Oh my fucking gaaaaaaad - that LBC interview!

Firstly - isn't it highly transphobic that when Nick Ferrari (who is definitely relishing asking this ridiculous question to these MPs and making them look like utter plonkers) asks 'do only women have a cervix' - David Lammy immediately starts talking about transwomen - thereby showing that he doesn't include transwomen in 'women' because transwomen are outside of that 'only women'.

Secondly 'a cervix is something that you can have, following various procedures and hormones and all the rest of it'....

WHAT???

David Lammy thinks a man can actually 'gain' a cervix? If there is one think that this whole cervix thing has highlighted, its that blokes know the square root of FUCK ALL about women and women's bodies!

But this man, he is an actual Member of. British Parliament. How. Just..... How?!

Datun · 29/09/2021 17:16

It looks like Lammy was easily sold on the idea that only 5000, largely men, would constitute the trans population. Not 500,000. Which would mean, according to him, that suicides were at a rate of about 340 per day.

It really is frightening that a man this ignorant, who thinks that men can grow a cervix, and who is this dismissive of women's concerns, was highly involved in the GRA.

Surely to God, now that the GRA is evidently not fit for the purpose it was designed, there must be a discussion on its repeal.

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 29/09/2021 17:17

Im 52, i have never ever had a political canvasser on my door step…ever

I heard a rumour that there was one in the village once

OvaHere · 29/09/2021 17:18

Because he's in the safest of safe Labour seats. I'd love the women of Tottenham to vote him out on the basis of this but it probably won't happen. They deserve so much better though.

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