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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ed Davy on R4 Today - there should not be safe places for women

265 replies

42SrauvP · 17/09/2021 08:03

Quite jarring to hear him say it out loud but yes, this white man has stated love on the radio that there should be no spaces where biological males can’t go.
Just before 8am.

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/09/2021 08:44

He also thinks women just "don't understand the facts and experience [of transwomen]"

What am I required to understand? They're not female, that's literally all that matters, and women sometimes need female only spaces.

MorrisZapp · 17/09/2021 08:45

@donquixotedelamancha

If it's not Tim Farron saying gays are going to burn in hell, it's this.

Tim Farron didn't say that. He's supported gay rights for decades. The woke lot that ousted him for being Christian are the same ones who put Swinson in and backed Moran.

I doubt Ed Davy really believes any of this crap but he wants to be leader and wants to unite the party so he has no choice but to toe their line. In many ways that's worse than if he were just an imbicile.

Agreed. Farron was a man of principle. He had faith based beliefs which he didn't want or expect others to live by. Davey should have paid attention.
Beamur · 17/09/2021 08:45

@1Endeavour2

Does he think male bodied people should be allowed in teenage girls changing rooms too?
I think the only answer to that can be yes.
donquixotedelamancha · 17/09/2021 08:46

Just listening now. The today program is still on so you can just dial back to 7.55 to hear it.

He certainly answered the question directly, twice, but then rushed on and fillibustered so Justin couldn't follow up on the implications of biological men in women's spaces.

BlackeyedSusan · 17/09/2021 08:52

Dangerous fool.

PickAChew · 17/09/2021 08:59

Working with the tories didn't destroy the libdems for me. This misogynistic shite absolutely has, though (I make exception for our local councillors because they're pretty decent)

catsareme14 · 17/09/2021 09:03

For the first time in my life I'm politically homeless .

R0wantrees · 17/09/2021 09:03

ID "Pre-op transwomen in women's prison?"

ED "yeh, because I think some of the arguments that are put against this just don't understand the facts and experience. You know, transpeople are some of the most discriminated against in our society. They suffer violence. They suffer harassment."

'Kate Coleman reads a statement from a former female prisoner about gender self-ID'
(the woman who brought the Judicial Review)
8 Sept 2021

"Being in prison with male prisoners you always feel on edge. You know something can happen at any time. We know that they're not women. They're physically threatening and aggressive.

I was sexually assaulted and I'm not the only woman who has been.
They haven't had surgery and they exposed themselves.

One of them had been told he couldn't shower at the same time as us women. He made a formal complaint and said that this was a breach of his human rights. So now he is allowed to shower with us and because he now has that right the other males have that right too. There's only a shower curtain between us, and he moves the curtain so we can all see his penis when he's washing himself or shaving his legs. This is disgusting and I think it is disgusting that the prison allows this.

But we can't complain about anything. These males are very well protected and it feels like our rights as women just don't count. We have to call them she and her and have to use their female names.
If we don't we are punished and lose our enhanced prisoner or D category status.

It's horrible to do that to women in prison. I can't understand how anyone can say that imprisoning males alongside women is the right thing to do.

The prisoner who attacked me was convicted of the most serious sexual offenses against girls and still has his penis.

How can the government say that putting him in prison with women is the right thing to do? It's not.

I'm out of prison now but I think about all the other women still in prison who have to live with these males. This is dangerous, disgusting and wrong.

and i would just add if it's lawful to imprison males who've been convicted of rape alongside women who are the victims of sexual violence, that the law has to change."

merrymouse · 17/09/2021 09:05

He probably just thinks about toilets.

I’d love to hear his plan for mixed prisons.

merrymouse · 17/09/2021 09:13

Sorry - he has thought about prisons. He is apparently just stupid.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 17/09/2021 09:13

Gosh - letting that sink in - no places where someone like Ed Davey can't go if he states he's a woman:

A changing room of teenage girls changing for swimming
A girl's dormitory in a boarding school
The women's showers in a workplace
Any hospital room where a woman is undressed and being examined
The girls toilets in a school
Every women's refuge and rape crisis centre.
A woman being strip searched in a prison

And the rest.....
There's a name for men like this.

PronounssheRa · 17/09/2021 09:14

I suppose its good he said the quiet bit out loud and confirmed this is mens rights activism.

His timing is interesting though www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58591225

andyoldlabour · 17/09/2021 09:15

I am so sorry that you are all having to witness, experience and go through this cruel madness.
Why have we so many inept, stupid, inconsiderate politicians. They lack any kind of empathy towards women and this madness isn't confined to one party - LibDems, Greens, Labour, SNP, this cult like poison is running through all of them.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 17/09/2021 09:15

If they can make you believe absurdities…

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/09/2021 09:15

'Kate Coleman reads a statement from a former female prisoner about gender self-ID'

(the woman who brought the Judicial Review)
8 Sept 2021

"Being in prison with male prisoners you always feel on edge. You know something can happen at any time. We know that they're not women. They're physically threatening and aggressive.

I was sexually assaulted and I'm not the only woman who has been.
They haven't had surgery and they exposed themselves.

One of them had been told he couldn't shower at the same time as us women. He made a formal complaint and said that this was a breach of his human rights. So now he is allowed to shower with us and because he now has that right the other males have that right too. There's only a shower curtain between us, and he moves the curtain so we can all see his penis when he's washing himself or shaving his legs. This is disgusting and I think it is disgusting that the prison allows this.

But we can't complain about anything. These males are very well protected and it feels like our rights as women just don't count. We have to call them she and her and have to use their female names.
If we don't we are punished and lose our enhanced prisoner or D category status.

It's horrible to do that to women in prison. I can't understand how anyone can say that imprisoning males alongside women is the right thing to do.

The prisoner who attacked me was convicted of the most serious sexual offenses against girls and still has his penis.

Such an incredibly powerful statement. It beggars belief that in a country where people supposedly have human rights and people are falling over themselves to pander to the "rights" of rapists not to be "othered", that women, including many women who are already victims of sexual violence, can be subjected to institutional sexual abuse in this way, and treated as props for abusive men Angry

R0wantrees · 17/09/2021 09:15

Ed Davey has been asked specifically about prisons. There is no ambiguity about the position of the Liberal Democrats and dissenters within the party have been treated very poorly.

Previous thread (2018):
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3399104-Times-Lib-Dem-trans-activists-hounded-abuse-victim-Natalie-Bird-Article-refers-to-Zoe-OConnell-Sarah-Brown

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/09/2021 09:17

Sorry - he has thought about prisons. He is apparently just stupid.

Stupid, callous, misogynistic, sadistic. Like many people it's not clear. All four even, or any combination, it's not relevant exactly which as the result for women is the same.

R0wantrees · 17/09/2021 09:20

Such an incredibly powerful statement. It beggars belief that in a country where people supposedly have human rights and people are falling over themselves to pander to the "rights" of rapists not to be "othered", that women, including many women who are already victims of sexual violence, can be subjected to institutional sexual abuse in this way, and treated as props for abusive men

From the previous thread linked above:

Times article by Lucy Bannerman
October 19 2018
'Lib Dem trans activists ‘hounded’ abuse victim'
(extract)
"A victim of domestic abuse was removed as a judge of a radical thinking prize and “hounded” out of her role within the Liberal Democrats for saying that she did not believe that men who identified as women should have access to women’s refuges.

Natalie Bird, 38, a mother of two who fled an abusive former partner, was accused of “dangerous transphobia” by transgender activists in the party. She had said that opening up safe spaces without proper safeguards to anyone who said that they were female could put women at risk.

She opposed segregating women’s refuges by chosen gender instead of biological sex, and said that it was not fair to make female victims of domestic violence, abuse and rape share services with people with “functioning” male anatomy.

After being allegedly bullied on social media by party activists, Ms Bird was brought before a disciplinary hearing to face a complaint in the name of Zoe O’Connell, on behalf of the LGBT+ Liberal Democrats. The correspondence says that Ms Bird had “expressed troublesome views”.

The hearing found no evidence to support the complaint of transphobia, but Ms Bird lost her position as chairwoman of the Radical Association, made up of party members, following a vote of no confidence. This cost her her role as a judge of the Ashdown Prize for Radical Thought; an ironic move, Ms Bird said, given that the prize’s aim was to reward “big, bold, radical” solutions to society’s most “daunting problems . . . no one has the courage to argue for” (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lib-dem-trans-activists-hounded-abuse-victim-b6dx39tv3

Mintjulia · 17/09/2021 09:23

A spectacularly stupid man who clearly has never bothered to check out the rates of assault and harassment.

A man too ignorant to ever be allowed anywhere near government. Unable to recognise the risk to 51% of his electorate.

A total prat.

Franca123 · 17/09/2021 09:25

The Liberal Democrats have a very clear policy on 'transphobia' which means Ed Davey can't take any other position. It's worth looking up the policy on their website. I left the party over it after being an active member for many years. Apart from being anti-women and anti-homesexual its anti free speech which is my biggest problem with it. An absolutely disgraceful political party.

R0wantrees · 17/09/2021 09:25

The Liberal Democrats' constitution:

(extract)
The Liberal Democrats exist to build and safeguard a fair, free and open society, in which we seek to balance the fundamental values of liberty, equality and community, and in which no one shall be enslaved by poverty, ignorance or conformity. We champion the freedom, dignity and well-being of individuals, we acknowledge and respect their right to freedom of conscience and their right to develop their talents to the full. We aim to disperse power, to foster diversity and to nurture creativity. We believe that the role of the state is to enable all citizens to attain these ideals, to contribute fully to their communities and to take part in the decisions which affect their lives.
www.libdems.org.uk/constitution

Whereareyourshoes · 17/09/2021 09:27

I’m always curious why male people campaign so hard for other male people to be given easier access to places where women and girls are vulnerable.

DoormatBob · 17/09/2021 09:27

I think this is really positive.

A trans woman is a subset of biological man. When we start to use the term biological man the majority of people will surely start to see where the issue lies.

NecessaryScene · 17/09/2021 09:28

And to reiterate something I've said before - as far as I can tell, if any space lets any transwomen in, they can no longer legally bar any male.

Ed may be in some way thinking this somehow only applies to "transwomen" or "men who say they're women" and thinking that this somehow limits the scope - as if a man wouldn't say he was a woman! But men wouldn't even need to do that.

The law permits discrimination against males (ie excluding them) if there is a reason for something to be single-sex. That's the EA2010 "single-sex exception".

But if it's not single-sex, the exception does not apply, and that discrimination is not permitted. Any male being present would allow any other man to challenge being excluded on the basis of sex, self ID or not.

(That's my understanding, at least).

ArabellaScott · 17/09/2021 09:28

Thank you, Ed Davey, for saying it loud and clear.

This is precisely the issue. More people need to wake up and listen.

This is what gender ideology means.