Ed Davy on R4 Today - there should not be safe places for women

[42SrauvP]

Quite jarring to hear him say it out loud but yes, this white man has stated love on the radio that there should be no spaces where biological males can’t go.
Just before 8am.

And then we had the report out today.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/14/sarah-everard-misogyny-men-violence-death-women?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Such a good piece

Radio 4 Today Program 17/09/2021

JW: Do you believe that there should be spaces - places - in our society where biological males can't go?

ED: Er, no - I think that the trans rights issue is an issue that all parties are grappling with and we need to come to some consensus across political parties and I've talked to Conservatives and Labour people who are trying to get this right. What I think we need to do to debate issues like this is to take some of the conflict and division out of it. What I worry, when I see Boris Johson and some of the Conservatives in Number Ten in the way they deal with this - they're sort of making this a cultural

JW (over the top) : But what about you? I asked you a direct question

ED: And I answered directly, actually Justin. We've very clear on this issue.

JW: So there should not be spaces where biological males cannot go?

ED: No, precisely! What we're saying, though, in this wider issue, dealing with trans rights which we're very much in favour of, is there needs to be a national discussion and I'm seeing in other political parties, people who are agreeing with the Liberal Democrats, Conservatives agreeing with us, Labour people agreeing with us and what we're trying to say is we need to have a mature, open tolerant debate and what we're seeing, I think, particularly from Boris Johnson's Downing Street unit, which is trying to stir divsion in our country. Division on this issue, divisional issues around race, I don't think that's acceptable...continues

And to reiterate something I've said before - as far as I can tell, if any space lets any transwomen in, they can no longer legally bar any male.

There is no legal or social definition of a 'transwoman' other than a male person who assumes the title.

And it says that single sex spaces in refuges are most important

Not the money grabbing gender neutral refuges

Read this Ed

Yet the women’s refuge movement, which sprang out of brave survivors squatting in vacant properties because no one would give money to help abused women, is being destroyed by a decade-long shift towards huge contracts for gender-neutral services that privilege cost-cutting and one size fits all over women’s needs.

The domestic abuse bill currently going through the Lords doesn’t even mention women’s refuges. Even as women campaign for misogyny to be made a hate crime, falling rape and domestic abuse convictions are effectively decriminalising male violence against women. Yet so often it is the female victims who end up in prison: two-thirds of female prisoners have lived through domestic abuse. That’s the sick, misogynistic world we inhabit, one where women traumatised by male violence are more likely to be locked up than given access to therapeutic support.

@Whereareyourshoes

I’m always curious why male people campaign so hard for other male people to be given easier access to places where women and girls are vulnerable.

Me too, red flags everywhere

Doesn’t it make you so mad when some, asked a difficult - or problematic - question start warbling on about “needing a discussion”. They think it makes them seem reasonable and open, when in fact they are just being weaselly.

Sigh. So that's me leaving the LDs then. Thanks for the thread as I missed the interview. From the transcript it does sound very squirmy and he was trying to hide behind the general confusion in the debate, but he condoned breaching women's rights. I feel very let down - believe it or not he's one of the good ones.

Jesus...just unbelievable. Women's safety just isn't a concern at all any more.

@DottyHarmer

Doesn’t it make you so mad when some, asked a difficult - or problematic - question start warbling on about “needing a discussion”. They think it makes them seem reasonable and open, when in fact they are just being weaselly.

And when they are on the side that has been saying ‘No debate!’ their slimy hypocrisy is there for all to see.

Ed Davey on LBC was unequivocal having listened to women's concerns about female single sex spaces being mixed sex and who feel threatened,

"I don't agree with them"

Ah, so only the ''lived experience'' and ''my truth'' of men matters, got it 👍

If you're a woman (the boring natal kind) detailing your lived experience and your truth, the menz will be along to inform you you're wrong, and to educate you on how a subset of males that are one of the safest groups of people in this country have it so much worse that you.

As for the prison quote...sick. I trust no person that thinks locking men in prison with vulnerable women is fine.

@OneMoreForExtra

Sigh. So that's me leaving the LDs then. Thanks for the thread as I missed the interview. From the transcript it does sound very squirmy and he was trying to hide behind the general confusion in the debate, but he condoned breaching women's rights. I feel very let down - believe it or not he's one of the good ones.

He really isn't a good one. Watching the LBC interview from last year, it's very clear that his atitude towards women asserting boundaries is one of contempt.

Ed Dave frequently gets himself into a mess trying to appease everyone. Surprised he actually gave a straight answer!

Did he miss the bit where women and girls are being abused, raped and killed in shocking numbers by those same biological men?
Nice to know that they'll have unlimited and easy access to victims as well as getting a free pass at the other end of the justice system.
The lib dems are an intellectually barren wasteland. Just a massive bunch of band-wagon jumping idiots.
Still, interesting to see that Mr Davey believes in biology - clearly being a 'biological male' isn't just an idea in the same way that being a woman is.

At least the naked truth is nakedly stated.

No lib dem is welcome on this woman's land, while that is what they think about us.

But do we really have to privatise privacy, while the disenfranchised masses are punished for their poverty by being gawped at and fearful in public? Risk being cast as cheap, naked entertainment in prison-Bedlams, for crimes as slight as non-payment of fines?

Sounds like an ultra-right wing 'punish the poor out of poverty' and 'terrorise women out of public life and into the protection/control of their husbands' regime to me.

How interesting that ED said these things on the same day that the recommendation that violence against women be treated as terrorism was reported.

Lib dems on the side of the terrorists eh?

Did he miss the bit where women and girls are being abused, raped and killed in shocking numbers by those same biological men?

I suspect he doesn’t care/feels that is an attack in men.

The big glaring thing he doesn’t acknowledge is that the number of men in prison for sex related crimes is many times larger than the entire female prison estate. He has just given them all a route to women’s prisons which deal with a very different prison population.

Even if he couldn’t care less about women, he needs to explain how that is going to work logistically. Remember, acceptance without exception!

The next general election is going to be a PR nightmare for the LDs.

Swinson was dire, but they also avoided some of the more bonkers stuff. Apparently membership is down 25% (not uncommon in mid terms but membership has been up for more than 6 years now). They normally trade off the back of local issues, but many of those who glue the party together are starting to age. They also have some problems with getting candidates and its getting worse. The standard is dropping and their due diligence has dropped some clangers and my suspicion is that despite bringing in a new code of conduct to get candidates to sign up to, they are going to have some issues with that. And a real nice lot of tabloid spreads.

The party are really struggling post brexit with any kind of messaging. What do they stand for? No one knows what the point in the LDs is.

If they continue going on about Brexit all they are doing is fighting yesterdays battle and not really having a vision of the future which is what voters will be looking for.

There is one route for them in making Nimbyism front and central as their key issue as Johnson is clearly going for gold with housing by setting Gove loose in the Department for Communities and Housing. The trouble with that, is its going to also alienate some younger people who desparately want to break out of Generation Rent.

So the party are going to have to manage an odd coalition of transactivists and aging NIMBYs.

I remain unconvinced by this as a serious political strategy.

Ed Davey just illustrates thr point well.

If he states there is nowhere that biological males shouldn't go, but he also believes trans women are women, presumably he doesn't believe in biology anyway so he should have said 'there's no such thing' to Justin Webb's question.

@DottyHarmer

Doesn’t it make you so mad when some, asked a difficult - or problematic - question start warbling on about “needing a discussion”. They think it makes them seem reasonable and open, when in fact they are just being weaselly.

I think it's good that he wants a discussion. Such a step forward from 'no debate'. Perhaps MNHQ could invite him on for a webchat about this particular issue, so none of the 'only two questions about this topic' (neither of which he will answer) nonsense that we've seen in other webchats.

I'd like him to come on here and tell us all why he doesn't think any women or girls should have any right at all to any single sex spaces.

On the same day as this:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58591225
Police must prioritise tackling violence on women

Tackling violence against women and girls should be as much of a priority as countering terrorism, a police watchdog has said.

Trans women should be allowed in all public places, Lib Dem leader Ed Davey says

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/trans-women-lib-dem-ed-davey-b1921898.html

The Indy twists it a bit

I’d a prison a public space?

Are toilets and changing rooms really public spaces?

I’d say a truly public space is somewhere that you would be allowed to put a camera.

Public is misleading, it's about state-managed spaces. (Be that through ownership, management, funding or policy control).

Very jarring with the reports on violence against women and girls.