Have been called transphobic by my trans child

[Firevixen]

My trans boy child just called me transphobic because I said they couldn't have their boyfriend over for a sleepover because they have a penis. My DC is 14 and the BF is 15.

They asked me what about if they had a transgirl stay over and I said that would be a no too because they have a penis.

So my DC thinks I'm transphobic and that I think that they are going to go around having sex with everyone.

I'm not being unreasonable am I? no one in their right mind would let two underage teenagers of the opposite sex, who are dating, have a sleepover, would they?

it’s transphobic because you are reminding your child that they have a vagina, when they identify as male, it’s the same as misgendering and deadnaming.

just saying ‘no sleepovers with anyone you’re dating until [insert your boundary here] would have sufficed. your child does not need you reminding them that they are female bodied, and it obviously caused them distress which is why they lashed out.

just, let your kid be a kid, you don’t need to talk about anyone’s genitals or bodies with them, only theirs, and only if they want to talk to you about something.

it’s about parenting, no need to get all specific about cocks and fannies. everyone knows what goes where, your child did not need a reminder about why THEY feel uncomfortable in THEIR OWN body.

i hope the sex/gender board disappears up its own arsehole. if you’re that rabid about literally everything to do with transgender issues (and a lot of it IS about being transgender, dressed up as feminism.the irony is delicious) go set up your own forum and rant away at each other while the world moves on without you.

and calling for anyone calling someone out for transphobia to be banned is fucking ridiculous. people get strikes and are banned for genuinely transphobic posts, and everyone just pretends it never happens and you’re all just concerned about female prisoners and badminton players or whatever. i’d love to know how many of you gave the faintest shit about female criminals in prison before it became the smokescreen on here.

except everyone will just say oh! actually i was and always have been! but it’s probably best to remember in these times that people can say whatever they want on the internet, there’s no personal fact checkers assigned out there in meatspace.

do carry on. i’m waiting for someone to mention swimming pool changing rooms and i can finish this bingo card and go to bed.

to clarify - you saying it was because he had a penis was the bit that unnecessarily implied that your child would be having vaginal intercourse with their boyfriend which might end in a pregnancy.

it’s about parenting, no need to get all specific about cocks and fannies. everyone knows what goes where

I think the job of a parent is is get specific about teaching biology and reproduction to their children. Not all children have the knowledge you have.

it’s transphobic because you are reminding your child that they have a vagina, when they identify as male

You seem to have fallen behind on the trans agenda and are now body shaming trans people. It is perfectly acceptable for a transman to be happy with their vagina. The same way a transwoman can be happy with their penis.

it’s transphobic because you are reminding your child that they have a vagina, when they identify as male, it’s the same as misgendering and deadnaming.

just saying ‘no sleepovers with anyone you’re dating until [insert your boundary here] would have sufficed. your child does not need you reminding them that they are female bodied, and it obviously caused them distress which is why they lashed out.

Presumably you think an unplanned pregnancy would be happiness and joy, and absolutely would not trigger immense distress or remind them of their female body.

Right?

i’d love to know how many of you gave the faintest shit about female criminals in prison before it became the smokescreen on here.

Some of us are not achingly middle-class and had or have female family members in prison.

I also used to live in a women's only homelessness hostel. I had the choice of mixed sex and women's only, and I chose women's only. I know from other people who were resident at the mixed-sex that women got sexually harassed there.

If I give you an abacus, can you put 2 and 2 together and work out if I've only recently started caring about the welfare of homeless women, or whether I might have cared about it forna good long while?

Then you can use the abacus I gave you to work out whether I really need mumsnet to tell me to care about women in prison today who are all someone else's sister, mother or daughter.

@fucknuckle

it’s transphobic because you are reminding your child that they have a vagina, when they identify as male, it’s the same as misgendering and deadnaming.

just saying ‘no sleepovers with anyone you’re dating until [insert your boundary here] would have sufficed. your child does not need you reminding them that they are female bodied, and it obviously caused them distress which is why they lashed out.

just, let your kid be a kid, you don’t need to talk about anyone’s genitals or bodies with them, only theirs, and only if they want to talk to you about something.

it’s about parenting, no need to get all specific about cocks and fannies. everyone knows what goes where, your child did not need a reminder about why THEY feel uncomfortable in THEIR OWN body.

i hope the sex/gender board disappears up its own arsehole. if you’re that rabid about literally everything to do with transgender issues (and a lot of it IS about being transgender, dressed up as feminism.the irony is delicious) go set up your own forum and rant away at each other while the world moves on without you.

and calling for anyone calling someone out for transphobia to be banned is fucking ridiculous. people get strikes and are banned for genuinely transphobic posts, and everyone just pretends it never happens and you’re all just concerned about female prisoners and badminton players or whatever. i’d love to know how many of you gave the faintest shit about female criminals in prison before it became the smokescreen on here.

except everyone will just say oh! actually i was and always have been! but it’s probably best to remember in these times that people can say whatever they want on the internet, there’s no personal fact checkers assigned out there in meatspace.

do carry on. i’m waiting for someone to mention swimming pool changing rooms and i can finish this bingo card and go to bed.

Your lack of empathy for autistic women, abused women, women prisoners etc is extremely sad.

You may want to check your privilege that some people with challenging life issues similar to yours did not get the help that you did and ended up in prisons, shelters etc.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

it’s transphobic because you are reminding your child that they have a vagina, when they identify as male, it’s the same as misgendering and deadnaming.

just saying ‘no sleepovers with anyone you’re dating until [insert your boundary here] would have sufficed. your child does not need you reminding them that they are female bodied, and it obviously caused them distress which is why they lashed out.

Presumably you think an unplanned pregnancy would be happiness and joy, and absolutely would not trigger immense distress or remind them of their female body.

Right?

if you read my post properly you will see that i am advising the OP to simply ban sleepovers for her child with people they are dating.

as for @IsItAKindofDream saying i am body-shaming a transgender person - come on now, we both know how disingenuous your remark is. all anyone ever goes on about here is lady dicks when referring to transgender women, which i would suggest is more offensive and body-shaming than me saying that the OP’s child presumably thought their mother was being transphobic by specifically mentioning their boyfriend’s penis, thereby implying that vaginal intercourse that may result in pregnancy might take place. and even if the mother didn’t mention pregnancy, a lot of people subsequently got very heated about the possibility of teen pregnancy. some of the mental gymnastics here are breathtaking.

where have i said or shown a lack of empathy for marginalised women? bit of a reach, there. again, you know nothing about me, my social status or whether or not i have or have had a female relative in prison. i was referring to the parrots who just repeat something they read on a thread in 2019 and wring their hands about female prisoners. i wasn’t asking for a critique on my experience of this, just wondering how many people cared before the transgender debate about the welfare of women in prison. it’s a fair question.

all this aside, it’s pretty weird to say ‘your boyfriend can’t come to stay because he has a penis’.

fucknuckle not disingenuous at all. You are the one now talking about “lady dicks” and trying to do mental gymnastics. The OP’s child may well be perfectly happy with their sex organs. Apparently is transphobic to assume otherwise.

Your casual dismissal of women’s issues demonstrates your lack of empathy for marginalised women or possible dislike of women. Why do you assume the women on here are “parrots”? That seems very dismissive of women actually having their own opinions. Many of us have given considerable thought to our opinions and have done reading on both sides to inform those opinions.

You're focusing surprisingly much on "vaginal intercourse" there, fucknuckle

In case you're not aware, it is possible for pregnancy to occur as a result of seminal fluid being brought into contact with a female's genitals without preceding penile penetration. The risk is very low, but it's 100% if it happens to you.

goaskalice.columbia.edu/answered-questions/pregnant-without-intercourse

There is also what is commonly known as coercion. Sometimes a female person very much does not want to have vaginal intercourse, but the male person pressures the female person into it.

Sometimes, even, female people wake up and find male people have penetrated them without their consent. A recent study found that 50% of female people had been subjected to sex acts without consent while they were sleeping.

it’s transphobic because you are reminding your child that they have a vagina, when they identify as male

The OP has not said anything about their child’s genitals. They spoke about the boyfriend’s genitals.

But, Let’s get this clear:

• discussion of body parts is transphobic.
• using terms such as women/girls when discussing health issues is transphobic.

Perhaps you are speaking more from you intention to denigrate Mumsnet as you did in later paragraphs than actually speaking up for anyone. Because you have just contradicted the reasons women have been given as to why the words ‘woman’ and ‘girl’ cannot be used in inclusive communication.

We are told that the completely dehumanised language of cervix havers, vagina owners, vulva havers and bleeders is the appropriate language to use. This means that ‘penis haver’ is actually appropriate here as well.

Or is it only female bodies that should be reduced to body parts and functions?

just saying ‘no sleepovers with anyone you’re dating until [insert your boundary here] would have sufficed. your child does not need you reminding them that they are female bodied, and it obviously caused them distress which is why they lashed out.

And if OP’s teen is anything like mine, they would then challenge this. Immediately with a ‘why’. Like mine did in a surprisingly similar chat a few months ago. Like mine does on every decision they don’t like.

Meaning that blanket statements like you just proposed are absolutely useless in the end. And harmful if you, as a parent, do not point out potential harmful consequences. All children deserve honesty where appropriate and not ambiguity. And clear boundaries. Particularly teenagers.

This is the safeguarding aspect of this discussion.

I'm guessing OP should pretend that her daughter is physically male. With male body parts.

Even though this is a lie. Join the insanity?

But gay sex doesn't lead to babies.

A parent being concerned about teen pregnancy is valid. Especially when, despite identifying as male, they are female.

You parent your way OP will parent her way. Fair.

And absolutely everything is transphobic nowadays. Everything. The word is actually meaningless, it is so overused.

just, let your kid be a kid, you don’t need to talk about anyone’s genitals or bodies with them, only theirs, and only if they want to talk to you about something.

I am sure that you will acknowledge their are many parenting styles in the world. Letting ‘kids be kids’ when it comes to sleepovers in a double bed with romantically involved 14 year olds has not featured in any credible responsible parenting text I have read.

And to repeat the contradiction from your first paragraph, if OP cannot use the words girl/woman/female and boy/man/male generically with her child because that is transphobic, and mention of genitals when appropriate is also transphobic, you are basically leaving parents no way to communicate with their child that is not transphobic.

Because, one way to have completely diffused this conversation that OP had was to state ‘no, because x is a boy/young man/male. Of course, he cannot sleep in the same bed.’ But to do that, is indeed pointing out the OP child’s sex in relation to their boyfriend.

So that leaves discussion of body parts.

You’re right. Teens of that age don’t want to hear about genitals, but this is where this language leaves us.

And you may have noticed later on the OP also talks about answering questions about sleepovers with other transboys. Well, for clear communication of the boundaries being set, it does seem that the choice of pointing out the boyfriend’s relevant body part was pertinent.

And as for leaving discussions with ‘kids’ about their genitals and other people’s genitals until they want to discuss them, again that doesn’t seem to be a responsible or proactive parenting decision. You have not convinced me that it is a good decision for keeping your child safe and healthy.

all this aside, it’s pretty weird to say ‘your boyfriend can’t come to stay because he has a penis’.

Except that you have pointed out that making the OP’s child aware they are not actually a male, but a transboy, is transphobic.

So to clarify again, referring to individual body parts is how inclusive language works isn’t it? Penis havers, vagina havers. And no one is denying biology anymore.

But you don’t seem to like words being used when they are being used in a real life situation.

i hope the sex/gender board disappears up its own arsehole. if you’re that rabid about literally everything to do with transgender issues (and a lot of it IS about being transgender, dressed up as feminism.the irony is delicious) go set up your own forum and rant away at each other while the world moves on without you.

and calling for anyone calling someone out for transphobia to be banned is fucking ridiculous. people get strikes and are banned for genuinely transphobic posts, and everyone just pretends it never happens and you’re all just concerned about female prisoners and badminton players or whatever. i’d love to know how many of you gave the faintest shit about female criminals in prison before it became the smokescreen on here.

except everyone will just say oh! actually i was and always have been! but it’s probably best to remember in these times that people can say whatever they want on the internet, there’s no personal fact checkers assigned out there in meatspace.

do carry on. i’m waiting for someone to mention swimming pool changing rooms and i can finish this bingo card and go to bed.

As for this, how is this supporting the OP? It is YOU who have just turned this thread into a platform to launch an attack at users of the board.

Other posters have also used this very thread to do that too.

And you talk of irony? of prejudice?

I talk of hypocrisy.

But, I am sure you felt very righteous in your rant.

@fucknuckle

to clarify - you saying it was because he had a penis was the bit that unnecessarily implied that your child would be having vaginal intercourse with their boyfriend which might end in a pregnancy.

So acknowledging a biological reality of anatomy and sex and the potential consequences of that reality is transphobic?

Are you suggesting that parents of trans children should never discuss biological realities and the risks (pregnancy, Std) associated with them? Trans children shouldn't receive sex education?
That doesn't sound particularly responsible

“to clarify - you saying it was because he had a penis was the bit that unnecessarily implied that your child would be having vaginal intercourse with their boyfriend which might end in a pregnancy.”

I wouldn’t be facilitating my 14 year old child to have anal sex either, if I were the OP.

No, because they could get pregnant. End of discussion.

*just, let your kid be a kid, you don’t need to talk about anyone’s genitals or bodies with them, only theirs, and only if they want to talk to you about something.

it’s about parenting, no need to get all specific about cocks and fannies. everyone knows what goes where, your child did not need a reminder about why THEY feel uncomfortable in THEIR OWN body.*

You can't be seriously suggesting that parents shouldn't be talking to their children about sex?

@fucknuckle what are your feelings about women being raped in prisons by convicted sex offenders?

Because we don't see many of the posters who believe that this board is transphobic on this type of discussion -

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4304592-DM-article-interview-with-female-attacked-in-prison

It would be genuinely interesting to find out your opinion on transwomen being housed in the female estate, given the article being discussed in the thread above?

You can't be seriously suggesting that parents shouldn't be talking to their children about sex

I think they might be saying you can talk about sex but you cant mention females or males, penis or vagina sooooo….

And thinking about it more, we now seem to be getting accused of not really caring about vulnerable women - just using it as a dogwhistle.

Whereas, the reason TRA's don't get involved in the discussions about women being raped in prison is that their truthful answer which can be summarised as 'who gives a shit, it's only women' doesn't really go with the whole 'you're all nasty transphobes, why can't you be kind?!' trope being currently pushed on society.

@fucknuckle

to clarify - you saying it was because he had a penis was the bit that unnecessarily implied that your child would be having vaginal intercourse with their boyfriend which might end in a pregnancy.

There is nothing unnecessary about this conversation in this situation.