DM article - interview with female attacked in prison.

[DevonTF]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9819631/I-sexually-assaulted-womens-prison-fellow-inmate-male-genitalia.html.

Article in the DM - interview with a female prisoner assaulted in prison by a female identifying male. Awful to read, but it is showing the reality of this.

Offs. I can’t even think how this is right.

What is wrong with our prisons wher women are being assaulted by men in clear fiew by justice system.

It couldn't have been written much more clearly.

The judge has badly let down Amy, and the women still at risk from J .

Sick.

Absolutely sick.

Like it or loathe it once the DM get hold of something they are like a dog with a bone…

Ugh, that is just awful, how could anyone think that is safe? Just...how?

(Also, trans prisoners are allowed perfume in glass bottles, heated rollers, and razors, according to that article. What are the rules about such items for other prisoners??)

That is a sickening read, how did we get here and how do we stop this. So frustrating.

Amy Jones has been so brave speaking up and bringing this to court, I can't believe the Judges decision it is so upsetting to imagine women are being put into this position in modern Britain, it's barbaric.

It just shows that the safeguarding promised by the judge in reality is just not there; in reality the prison guards seem a bit intimidated by the trans prisoners and manipulated by them.

Amy - if you come across this thread, you are an incredible, brave and strong woman.

Brava.

God, that's upsetting.

I’m so pleased they’ve picked this up. Make all the right wing/religious fundamentalist/ bigot slurs you want - it doesn’t work against this

ProudAspieDad

That post is full of antisemitic tropes. Reported.

It just shows that the safeguarding promised by the judge in reality is just not there; in reality the prison guards seem a bit intimidated by the trans prisoners and manipulated by them.*

The single most effective safeguarding measure is separating the sexes. So the judges and the MoJ are demanding the prisons keep the women safe, somehow, while they are also demanding they dismantle safeguarding.

Sure, making demands is easy.

Interesting to read that there were wings etc that were repurposed for trans prisoners who it was accepted (?!) should be in the women's estate.

But they argued this was a beach of their human rights and won (who argued what in what court/ tribunal etc???) and won. And we're moved back in with the general female population.

So... It's not about safety then is it.

I mean no surprise but still.

I just cannot get my head around this happening in the first place. Continuing to happen after kw.

That a judge said yes of course women in prison will be impacted and feel unsafe but so what.

It's extremism isn't it?

It is welcome news that Amy is bringing civil action against the MoJ and Sodexo for damages.

Wasn’t this largely what the judges suggested between the lines would be needed? -As they couldn’t find that the MoJ is necessarily acting illegally in placing sex offenders and other identifiers in women's prisons, but the women may still have claims when they have been harmed.

I also really want to add here, that it annoys me very much, when most people can understand that being raped is harmful, but struggle to grasp that the breach of privacy and dignity matters too. Having to see exposed penises and having someone rub their erection against you
is profoundly harmful, and the harm is exacerbated when it is clear that those who should have been keeping you safe don’t care, or are even siding with the perpetrator.

@NiceGerbil

Interesting to read that there were wings etc that were repurposed for trans prisoners who it was accepted (?!) should be in the women's estate.

But they argued this was a beach of their human rights and won (who argued what in what court/ tribunal etc???) and won. And we're moved back in with the general female population.

So... It's not about safety then is it.

I mean no surprise but still.

This bears unpicking.

Both female and trans women prisoners have the right to be safe, women from rape and sexual assault. Trans women from the same and likely other assaults. Separate wings meets this.

And then what? There's some amorphous 'right'. To free association? To freedom of expression? But prison curtails those anyway. And do they trump safety? Really?

My theory is that prisoners should be safe first, and they genuinely aren't currently. But we can keep female prisoners slightly more safe. In the same way we keep debtors and sex offenders on rule for safety, by segregation. Why can't women with vaginas be kept on a 'rule' as well for their safety? Rule 43 if I remember my prison lingo correctly.

Fallingirl

The judges remarks were extremely troubling though.

I bet every woman in prison would have been delighted to have a sign on the door not letting anyone else in while they were in the shower.
I can't imagine any woman would say it was against their human rights to shower alone.

MrsTerryPratchett

Yes I found that very interesting.

What was the process for their challenge?

Human rights argument sounds lawyer-y. Expensive. Where did the money come from?
Was there consideration of the human rights of the female inmates? Was there an alternative argument involved? Anyone to advocate for the female prisoners?

Is the process arguments decision and justification in the public domain? Shouldn't it be?

How did the trans prisoners know that this was an option? To challenge on human rights grounds?
I mean obviously people know stuff wherever they are but this seems to be pretty specialised knowledge + knowing how to act on it and having the cash and confidence to do so.

It feels a bit... Something feels off to me.

Especially when surely women in prison having male convicts in their estate. Including sex offenders. And multiple reports of sexual misconduct assault etc.

Just... No inmates raising human rights cases. Assaults being ignored.

Once out woman brings case and judge says...

Yes I get it's s risk and women will be intimidated scared. But that doesn't make me think it's a problem...

I mean wtf.

I mean wtf.

I think that a lot.

Poking around in Google...

www.lag.org.uk/article/202050/transgender-issues-in-the-criminal-justice-system

' on 8–9 September 2016, a group of human rights lawyers gathered in Athens to participate in the Transgender Europe (TGEU) legal network conference. TGEU2 is a human rights organisation that has been at the forefront of transgender rights since its inception in 2005'

I was wondering if there are groups who are looking out for trans rights in prison and might be driving the human rights arguments etc.

NiceGerbil if I remember past threads correctly, Stephen Whittle and Press for Change saw the issue of prisons as strategically important for self ID in Scotland. Will try to find a link.

No inmates raising human rights cases.

Why are no Human Rights lawyers interested in advocating for the women's Human Rights - aren't women's as glamorous or meaningful?

(Also, trans prisoners are allowed perfume in glass bottles, heated rollers, and razors, according to that article. What are the rules about such items for other prisoners??)

Largely not available to women - who typically have difficulties obtaining basics such as sanpro.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3292213-Trans-gender-inmates-must-be-allowed-make-up