Have been called transphobic by my trans child

[Firevixen]

My trans boy child just called me transphobic because I said they couldn't have their boyfriend over for a sleepover because they have a penis. My DC is 14 and the BF is 15.

They asked me what about if they had a transgirl stay over and I said that would be a no too because they have a penis.

So my DC thinks I'm transphobic and that I think that they are going to go around having sex with everyone.

I'm not being unreasonable am I? no one in their right mind would let two underage teenagers of the opposite sex, who are dating, have a sleepover, would they?

[quote CuriousaboutSamphire]@KidneyBeans I was asking. Your post really wasn't all that clear.

And the feminist thing is becaue that's how MNHQ have named the section.

OP obviously felt that the Feminsism: Gender/Sex Discussion was a better fit for her than the LGBTQ section. Entirely her choice.

Is it a thing on here today? To continually demand smaller and smaller segregated pods of discussion?

It's happening all over the place![/quote]
No one has further demanded segregation of discussion on this thread
There's a lot of straw-manning here.

MN called the topic feminism:sex and gender because the topic is about sex and gender issues that impact feminism. There are other topics that discuss trans parenting queries for example.

A few of us have simply queried what the feminist issue is here and why this is in feminism? There was no need for a rude response or to insinuate that I don't care about safeguarding.

I'm glad that my literal repetition of my previous post made my point clearer for you to understand.

There's a risk that actual feminist issues will be drowned out by general gender/parenting queries. Different boards exist for that reason.

There's absolutely no reason to attack posters who are simply asking what the feminist issue of this thread in the feminism board is

Good grief!

There's a risk that actual feminist issues will be drowned out by general gender/parenting queries.

There also seems to be a great deal of topic policing being done. We have been well assured by Justine that topics will not be moved willy nilly (which does not seem to have been the case). OP has stated that they wished to post the thread here because they DO feel it is relevant to this board.

Firevixen obviously also had an interest into whether or not the transphobic accusation coming from their child had merit, . They have received lots of support and hopefully clarity on their decision and their intentions.

Their post does actually bring to light the confusion and the questions surrounding this issue in bringing up teens and the conflation of sex and gender. And the obvious safeguarding issues surrounding it.

Would they have received the same answers in the LGBT board? Who knows, maybe or maybe not. Either way, the only people who seem to believe they are transphobic are those who have no discussion past the accusation. And many people, some with direct experience, have given insights.

Not quite sure why this thread is being policed the way it is. However, your point about 'actual' feminist issues being 'drowned out' seems quite irrelevant and continues to infantilise adults who can simply scroll on by if they do not wish to engage in the topic. There are now TWO active boards for people to choose from and everyone is welcome to start a thread about a topic they think is more important to discuss.

Moving threads when they are providing the support that the OP seems to be happy with seems more about policing what threads can appear where.

with trans kids it might be hard to tell what biological sex they are.

Not if you met them.

I bet if you had a lesbian daughter and refused a sleepover with her girlfriend you'd be homophobic too, because teenagers.

The only difficulties arise if a) your child tells you the person coming is the same (biological) sex as them but they aren't or b) you allow opposite sex friends to come but not share a room, and they lie about whether they're dating (because teenagers) and break the second part of the rule after hours (ditto).

@Helleofabore

There's a risk that actual feminist issues will be drowned out by general gender/parenting queries.

There also seems to be a great deal of topic policing being done. We have been well assured by Justine that topics will not be moved willy nilly (which does not seem to have been the case). OP has stated that they wished to post the thread here because they DO feel it is relevant to this board.

Firevixen obviously also had an interest into whether or not the transphobic accusation coming from their child had merit, . They have received lots of support and hopefully clarity on their decision and their intentions.

Their post does actually bring to light the confusion and the questions surrounding this issue in bringing up teens and the conflation of sex and gender. And the obvious safeguarding issues surrounding it.

Would they have received the same answers in the LGBT board? Who knows, maybe or maybe not. Either way, the only people who seem to believe they are transphobic are those who have no discussion past the accusation. And many people, some with direct experience, have given insights.

Not quite sure why this thread is being policed the way it is. However, your point about 'actual' feminist issues being 'drowned out' seems quite irrelevant and continues to infantilise adults who can simply scroll on by if they do not wish to engage in the topic. There are now TWO active boards for people to choose from and everyone is welcome to start a thread about a topic they think is more important to discuss.

Moving threads when they are providing the support that the OP seems to be happy with seems more about policing what threads can appear where.

I haven't suggested the thread was moved.

Another poster simply asked what the feminist issue was and I agreed that I too was struggling to see the feminist issues in this thread.

Bizarre that a simple question and a comment genuinely asking about feminism issues on the feminism board warrants such defensive responses (none of which actually answer the question)

Ooh!

No one has further demanded segregation of discussion on this thread ... There's a lot of straw-manning here. You did, more than once. You keep asking why OP posted here rather than somewhere else. You moaned about it on a few replies despite OP saying thatthis is where she felt it was the best fit for her. That's you wanting OP to post where YOU see fit and not breaking some rules only you seem to know!!

MN called the topic feminism:sex and gender because the topic is about sex and gender issues that impact feminism. There are other topics that discuss trans parenting queries for example. I refer you to the above and repeat - OP chose here because it best fit her needs.

A few of us have simply queried what the feminist issue is here and why this is in feminism? There was no need for a rude response or to insinuate that I don't care about safeguarding. I wasn't rude and you brought up safeguarding in a rather opaque way - which I queried. Is that what you mean by 'rude' ?

I'm glad that my literal repetition of my previous post made my point clearer for you to understand. Except it didn't. I still don't know if you meant to say that if OP had posted in LGBT parenting she would have been better off as she owuldn't have had any of the safeguarding comments - which is a pretty odd thing to have said! So I asked if that is what you meant...

There's a risk that actual feminist issues will be drowned out by general gender/parenting queries. Different boards exist for that reason. Yes and this one exists against the wishes of many people who post in FWR regularly. New posters kept popping up and hectoring, demanding. Saying things like "actual feminist issues will be drowned out"

There's absolutely no reason to attack posters who are simply asking what the feminist issue of this thread in the feminism board is Again with the hyperbole. What attack? Or was I right in assuming that you consider a question to be an attack?

This sort of posting is precisely why some regular FWR posters didn't want a split of the boards here. Because common sense tells you that by putting all of us GC apples in one basket we became an easy target for monitors, thread police and Uncle Tom Cobbley and all. Thus proving something to someone and helping shut women up, stop us discussing what we want to how we want to.

For shame!

@CuriousaboutSamphire
You keep asking why OP posted here rather than somewhere else.
Where exactly have I asked this?

You moaned about it on a few replies despite OP saying thatthis is where she felt it was the best fit for her. That's you wanting OP to post where YOU see fit and not breaking some rules only you seem to know!!

Again, Where have I moaned?
OP is welcome to post where she likes. Other posters are welcome to query that posting when the thread doesn't seem to chime with the topic. That's what's happened here. Odd that none of the posters taking the time to write such long responses to a simple question can actually answer the question.

Except it didn't. I still don't know if you meant to say that if OP had posted in LGBT parenting she would have been better off as she owuldn't have had any of the safeguarding comments - which is a pretty odd thing to have said! So I asked if that is what you meant...

I didn't say or mean to say any of those things. Again a lot of projection. I simply asked what the feminist issues were in this thread and when safeguarding was raised pointed out that not all safeguarding issues are feminist issues, so I'm not actually any clearer and it seems no one actually want to explain anything.

Yes and this one exists against the wishes of many people who post in FWR regularly. New posters kept popping up and hectoring, demanding. Saying things like "actual feminist issues will be drowned out"
Yeah, it's definitely not that some of us name change because this is a sensitive topic If I wasn't a regular poster I'd have given up ages ago! I know the FWR women are a knowledgeable bunch. That's why I'm confused as to why no one is willing to answer a simple query

This sort of posting is precisely why some regular FWR posters didn't want a split of the boards here. Because common sense tells you that by putting all of us GC apples in one basket we became an easy target for monitors, thread police and Uncle Tom Cobbley and all. Thus proving something to someone and helping shut women up, stop us discussing what we want to how we want to.

I find it bizarre that me politely asking someone to explain what the feminist issues are in this thread has generated such a response.

If you genuinely think that me politely saying that I'm struggling to understand the feminist issue on this thread is the reason for all of the above then I suspect nothing I say would register as reasonable!

DelphiniumBlue

Just because your DC is trans, doesn't mean the bf is. In fact he's almost certainly not.

Ehhh? OP never said the bf was trans. Her child is. Presumably if the bf was also trans then both children would be biologically female and sleepover would be a different issue.

I'm bewildered why some posters have told the OP that she is in the wrong.

Have they considered, for a single moment the additional psychological ramifications of an unplanned pregnancy for a young female already struggling with gender identity and distress around their sexed body?

I think the answer is no, they have not thought about this.

Also apologies @CuriousaboutSamphire

I didn't answer your question about where you were rude. Generally I'd interpret a question that ends in REALLY?!?? As indicating exasperation/aggression, or at least not a tone that's looking to help me understand the issues. That combined with the inference that I don't care about safeguarding and the ignoring of my point about silencing because it's inconvenient to your narrative isn't exactly polite is it?
Are you suggesting that would be a good thing? No commentary on safeguarding in the right place REALLY!?!?!

Agree, your job is to set and defend boundaries.
It's what parents do!

@Firevixen

I asked this here because it is a sex and gender issue.

Long as it wasn't moved

That's why I'm confused as to why no one is willing to answer a simple query But what was the simple query that has gone unanswered?

You do read deep, don't you? A whole new world between the lines!

I don't know. 14 is young for any kind of romantic relationship sleepover in my opinion.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

That's why I'm confused as to why no one is willing to answer a simple query But what was the simple query that has gone unanswered?

You do read deep, don't you? A whole new world between the lines!

I've clearly said that I can't see why the OP's post is a feminist issue and asked for someone to help me understand several times. To be absolutely clear - my question is why is this OP a feminist issue?

In response you've made insinuations, been rude and most recently, implied I'm the thread police.

The irony of insults and basically a #nodebate response to asking for help understanding an issue on this board is not lost on me.

I can totally see why new posters would find it off putting. FWIW I was against the separation of the FWR boards but your persistent rudeness is starting to give me an insight into why it was requested.

Interesting the difference a name change can make!

You do read deep, don't you? A whole new world between the lines!

Maybe REALLY?!?! And an insinuation that I don't care about safeguarding
Is polite conversation for you. But I've spent long enough on the feminist boards to know it isn't

At least have some integrity and own your rudeness, don't try and gaslight your way out of it.

@Illogicalmadness

bayswatersupport.org.uk/toptentips/

Bayswater Support group is a useful source of advice for parents of trans children.

That's really helpful, thank you!

I posted here because I believe gender ideology IS a feminist issue and it's something I really struggle with, with regards to my DC.

@optimistic40

I don't know. 14 is young for any kind of romantic relationship sleepover in my opinion.

yeah, but if theres no chance of pregnancy and youd let someone they liked less sleepover, then what exactly are we trying to police?

@Firevixen

I posted here because I believe gender ideology IS a feminist issue and it's something I really struggle with, with regards to my DC.

I guess I was hoping for a deeper understanding of the feminist implications of your problem.

To me it seems pretty straightforward that most parents wouldn't want two opposite sex teenagers sharing a room regardless of gender identity - it's a sex-based decision and gender ideology doesn't really influence it. Most posters here seem to agree with that.

Sex is the reason why women and girls are oppressed and gender is the vehicle of that oppression.

A 14 year old female (who thinks, in lockstep with gender ideology, that by identifying as a boy somehow her biological sex is sublimated in favour of gender) needs a) practical safeguarding/boundaries because she is a teenage child with some identity issues in a relationship with a slightly older male teenager, all of which creates its own dynamic and potential vulnerabilities.
And b) a feminist response because it is not actually liberation from patriarchy to believe you can just say the words and identify out of your sex class and all issues to do with being the female sex just magically disappear for you.

Otherwise we'd all have done it.

It’s precisely this magical thinking which leads her to call her mum a transphobe because OP doesn't believe teenage boys actually change sex and become indistinguishable from girls. Because biology.

For some reason I keep on thinking about the Magdalen Berns video where she talks about, is it Ash Hardell?, getting a staff uniform changed for themself but not campaigning on behalf of the rest of the women who worked there for a widening of the uniform policy for everyone to benefit.

And in that way 'identifying out' ultimately ends up reinforcing the stereotypes for everyone.

Horrified that we are talking about "trans" children so casually. WTF

Horrified that we are talking about "trans" children so casually. WTF

Talking about being trans is done casually on these boards all the time so not sure why you're horrified?

@Skinnytailedsquirrel

Horrified that we are talking about "trans" children so casually. WTF

Fuck off

@Skinnytailedsquirrel

Horrified that we are talking about "trans" children so casually. WTF

Your quotations speak loudly too btw.