R4 now Tuesday 7.51 am

[somethinginoffensive]

Discussing Stonewall.

Wow. I’m happily and mightily surprised by the BBC for shining a small light on this matter.

I felt there was a missed opportunity to rebuff BC when he went off on a rant about his protected characteristics asking which one is the most important. IE ‘We are talking here about women as a sex class. Therefore does he consider SEX to be a protected characteristic equal to his 3 characteristics?’ And if ye agrees they are, why is he so opposed to GC views.

Benjamin has apologised for assuming Justin's gender identity

😂 Okaaay then.

'Benjamin has apologised for assuming Justin's gender identity'

Yeah, and had his ass handed to him in the replies. Person after person writing some version of 'mate, you fucked up totally. Own it, for the love of god!'

@littlbrowndog

Cohen could off given up his place to a trans person surely to be interviewed as he was moaning that there was no trans person on

Yes, as a Pink News person surely he has lots of names in his phone book he could have suggested instead, if he's so troubled by it?

@Letsgetreadytocrumble

The thing is, prominent trans people like. Paris Lees are always talking about how they turn down interviews because 'I'm not prepared to debate my existence', but then everyone moans that there are no trans people in these sorts of interviews.

Paris Lees did a pretty car crash long form interview with Nick Robinson, who is also a Today presenter.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/03/01/paris-lees-my-interview-with-nick-robinson-highlights-everything-wrong-with-debate-about-trans-people/

The interview was here (42 mins long)
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05xp3z2

Succinct.

Glorious!

They started doing that in the hope that the BBC would cancel the piece rather than go ahead with only presenting one side. This seemed to work for a while. The BBC now seem to make more effort to find someone to put forward the TRA side rather than cancel. On Newsnight once a couple of years ago the only person they seemed to be able to find for this was Aimee Challenor.

Brilliant

I love that Stonewall is trending as "entertainment"

I found BC very difficult to listen to. I have a very low threshold for vicarious embarrassment.

How does BC think he can get away with denying what is on Stonewall's website, right now, in black and white?

Just listened on catch-up. Cor blimey! BC came across as so aggressive to the point of being quite unhinged. SF, in contrast, was calm, coherent and rational. It makes it very clear why No Debate was thought to be the best (only?) option.

Wow. Just re-listened.

Gosh.

@deleteasappropriate 'transsexual' is the term in the equality act so Justin was correct to use it. It's just TRAs don't like the term so they try to avoid it

Agree Critical Condition felt very “what I want Stonewall to be saying ...” not what they have actually written down

It was a thing of beauty! Ben Cohen should do be the voice of the pro-trans side in every interview - we'd have this all sown up within a week!

It was a thing of beauty! Ben Cohen should do be the voice of the pro-trans side in every interview - we'd have this all sown up within a week!

Absolutely.

Remarkable. Usually when a person is found out in their lies, they have to own up.

The BC chappie (or whatever preferred moniker) roughly saying on twitter that he had to defend accusations of things Stonewall had said. And how they didn't say them.

Well, NK did compare gc views to anti-semitic views. In black and white.

Also, Stonewall have/had as their agenda to remove rights to single sex spaces. In black and white.

If someone can't even tell the truth when something is written down for all to unambiguously see, you wouldn't trust anything else they say at all. You'd double check if it was true.

Oh no, I hope this doesn't lead to a deluge of people helpfully pointing out exactly what Stonewall is explicitly campaigning for.

Women pointing out what stonewall actually said are transphobic trolls apparently says BC.

twitter.com/cristo_radio/status/1402186928225665024

However, perhaps Cristo Foufas is a bad person in which case you shouldn't read the tweet.

I don't mean this to be cruel, but I think a lot of trans people turn down media requests because they've learned that once people see the person making the argument then they begin to lose the argument.

I presume BC can say Stonewall aren't trying to stop refuges from being women only spaces with all 'honesty' as he believes transwomen are women. That's the problem with taking long established and meaningful definitions from words. You can't communicate anymore.

I suppose it didn’t occur to Benjamin Cohen to ask who the other guests invited to speak were, because if so, he could have politely declined the invitation and suggested a whole tranche of trans people. , sorry I mean transwomen of course, who would be willing to take his place in the discussion so that the trans voice would be represented.

But it didn’t, so he didn’t.

@EsmaCannonball

I don't mean this to be cruel, but I think a lot of trans people turn down media requests because they've learned that once people see the person making the argument then they begin to lose the argument.

Well that's awful for them. However, this was a radio interview!

Radio and people's voices can be particularly "unfair" in that respect EsmaCannonball .